Development of Trolls

[Marlow]

Duplicate post!

[Marlow]

My first Troll skilled up last night (three games, three Casulties) and he rolled snake eyes!

So I now have Block on Da Troll!
I expect I will take Multi-block with him next.

[Grogmir]

but how many times you gonna roll 12

I reckon about 1 in 36

In my experience, about twice as often as (1,1), (2,2), (3,3) and (4,4) combined.

[DoubleSkulls]

Which suggests that Ian thinks that 6+6 -> Block is the more sensible, less fun option. I'd like to get that verified, as I've been labouring under the impression that +ST is both more fun and more sensible.

That's pretty much right. Block & 2 dice is better than 3 dice for blocking both in terms of reliability and knock downs against non-block players. Against block/wrestle opponents 3 dice will knock them down more - but you will be blocking more with a Block player so get more cas from it.

There are a couple of reasons why S6 is better than just comparing blocking.
* You might roll another double or a double 6. S6 block is better than Block/Pro and S7 would be tons of fun.
* S6 makes him a lot less vulnerable to other Big Guys - so if marked by a krox for instance you've got a big advantage.
* S6 means he's more likely to be able to get 2 dice regardless of defensive assists.
* S6 means better value from Multiple block since you need no assists against S3.

[mattgslater]

On Orcs, a S6 Troll early-on means that you can downprioritize Guard on BOBs in some leagues, increasing the reliability of your line by taking Block or SF instead. Once that S6 Troll gets another roll, yer stylin', with either Guard (totally immobile line, baby) or Block on doubles.

[Marlow]

As a follow on to the Str 6 Troll discusson; is a Str 3 Goblin worth it or are they better off with Str 2 & Block/Wrestle?

[DoubleSkulls]

Assuming a single assist in both instances S3 is better since 2 dice are better than 1, even with block.

S3 goblins are great but don't tend to live that long... enjoy whilst you can!

[mattgslater]

In a Goblin team? ST3! Ian's argument is bang on.

In an Orc team? It depends on what you do with Goblins. I like to use only one as an offensive change-up mechanism, purchased usually as a 13th or 14th selection (in fact, that's the only way I'd end up with 14 on an Orc roster). I hate to turn down a ST increase, but this guy is such a specialty player that I'd be more likely to give him NoS (he shouldn't be blocking). Then again, if it means I can blitz at 2d instead of two dodges... I might actually grab +ST in that case, come to think of it. If you run two or more Goblins, by all means take a ST increase on one (that puts Side Step up next, or Block on doubles).

[Buggrit]

I play an Orc team with a Troll... first skill he got was Guard, then I gave him Strong Arm (I tend to do a cunning gob lob play, which has worked more times than it's failed due to some great landing rolls and a gobbo with sure feet!) it cuts down on the number of fumbled gobbo's as you now only fumble on a 1 (Strong arm'll cancel out the -1 modifier for throwing a goblin to short pass range) great for hurling gobbo's for your OTS strategy or for cagebusting by lobbing a disposable gobbo into your oppositions cage and hoping that you hit the ball carrier!!!

[PubBowler]

I'd be more likely to give him NoS

They are a lot of good skills to give your Orc team's Goblins.

I don't think NOS is one of them, due to them being AG3 and being on a team which doesn't pass with regularity or reliability.

I'd be thinking Dirty Player (then Sneaky Git for a mobile go anywhere fouler) or Strip Ball (cage breaking threat). Block or Guard would also be ahead of NOS.

And NOS drops even farther down the list if you roll a 6'6.

[Buggrit]

Catch is always good for gobbo's... If I'm trying for an OTS strategy I'll generally have my AG4 blitzer with sure hands grab the ball and hand it off to the Gobbo... Catch helps if he fumbles it so I can use the TRR later on (should everything go to plan and the troll isn't stupid, doesn't try to eat the gobbo and manages to use Strong Arm to fling the little fella downfield...) for the landing should it all go tits up on the first landing roll.

[mattgslater]

I'd be more likely to give him NoS

They are a lot of good skills to give your Orc team's Goblins.

I don't think NOS is one of them, due to them being AG3 and being on a team which doesn't pass with regularity or reliability.

I'd be thinking Dirty Player (then Sneaky Git for a mobile go anywhere fouler) or Strip Ball (cage breaking threat). Block or Guard would also be ahead of NOS.

And NOS drops even farther down the list if you roll a 6'6.

You're missing the point. NOS isn't a great skill. It's a great skill on that player on that team. If you have a Troll, four BOBs, four Blitzers, two Throwers and a Line-Orc, you really don't need a Goblin with Block or +ST. Seriously. You need a guy who can give you a credible 2T score threat without a re-roll, and otherwise maintain a warm spot on the bench unless/until somehow you've got three guys out at the start of a drive.

If your only Gobbo on a 14-man Orc team gets blocked or has to throw a block, something has gone very wrong. The blitz, you say? That's what cages are for. All this guy does is dodge, catch, GFI and, once in a blue moon, pick up the ball or land after being thrown. SH or Pro might not be a terrible investment, but given how often I have to catch before dodging with him, NOS is to me an obvious choice. Guard's not a bad idea, but an Orc team usually has got so much Guard that as cool as Guard on a Gobbo sounds, it would look vanilla.

With NOS, I'd get him Catch next, even on doubles or boxcars (MA on 10, AG on 11). I haven't played any single Orc team long enough to get a Gobbo to 31 SPP, and I'm still not sure what I'd do if it ever happened.

[mattgslater]

Maybe your Orcs don't pass. Mine do, and it works GREAT. Now, they don't pass like Elves do. Ok. But the beauty of the Orc team is that you combine a spectacular cage offense with a mediocre short passing game that can get the ball into and out of the cage (an option the other bashy teams must envy, and a great part of what makes Humans and Dark Elves tick in fact, though admittedly both teams do that part better).

[stormmaster1]

On the Troll +ST issue. Did anyone clock Buggrit's snow troll. He got +ST, then another 12. he chose block. 1 count luthor and 2 assists later he was toast. If he'd had +St it would have been difficult for any side to get a decent block on him. Similar thing for ST6 over ST5. it protects the player by making it so so difficult for opposition to get decent blocks on him. great for a team based around those two trolls.

Secondly i would also rate juggernaught. if you get a couple of assists you get a 3D blitz with mighty blow. imo this is worth risking the 2+ RS roll especially when you lose the both down=turnover result. The other reason to blitz with trolls is that the more you block and blitz with them, the more they will skill up.

[DoubleSkulls]

Don't blitz with trolls....

Gobbos on Orc teams... I'd take the +ST just for the laugh. Otherwise you develop them purely as 1 turn wonders IMO. Sure Feet, sprint, catch etc. The only double even worth considering is Pro as there are so many AG rolls required (especially if you don't have sure feet or catch yet).

Everything else the doubles isn't even that useful since all the skills you want are AG anyway and taking anything else makes you worse at the one turn game.

NoS just isn't worth it. NoS excels when you want to run multiple receivers down field in the expectation one will get marked and the other blitzed. NoS means they have to blitz the NoS one. With gobbos that means you've got a dead gobbo - and if you are fielding more than 1 gobbo on a drive you are fielding too few Orcs. 4 BOBs, 1 Troll, 4 blitzers, 1 thrower = 1 spare spot.

The passing option with Orcs is by having a thrower developed to pass (accurate, strong arm etc) and then going to any of your AG3 receivers (i.e. blitzers) not by fielding goblins.

As for developing the troll to throw gobbos... First 2 skills ought to be guard & stand firm. Strong Arm as a 3rd probably means you are throwing goblins too much. Grab or break tackle would probably make a better choice.