Witch Elf Doubles

howabe · Post by **howabe** » Sun May 03, 2009 10:08 am

Thanks guys, looks like Piling On's my choice.

Playing a foul-happy rookie Chaos team today, will let you know how she does and if she survives

howabe · Post by **howabe** » Mon May 04, 2009 5:48 am

Well, a narrow 3-2 victory sealed by a Beastman falling over going for it towards the endzone on turn 16.

Witch Elf in question got 2 TD, 3 Casualties (including a dead Warrior) and a 4th casulaty from the crowd. Now 3 points from next skill (presumably Block).

Second Witch Elf got her first skill too (+AG).

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:46 pm

Oh yes, you picked MB. So if you roll doubles again, go for PO. If not, block would be my choice. I like Wrestle too, but not if you already have MB. You'll want some wrestle on your linemen then ...

And +AG on the other Witch. Aye. At the rate that you are rolling skill-ups, you'll be building a monster team. On that Witch, I'd go for Wrestle next, followed by Leap. Then Tackle or Strip Ball.

Johnny Blade · Post by **Johnny Blade** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:12 pm

I honestly don't see why you'd want Wrestle on a Witch Elf, since it's dangerous for an AV7 player and doesn't work with Frenzy.

Personally, I'd give the AG5 Witch Side Step next.
(Um...she already has Block, right? If not, that should definitely be her next skill.)

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Wed May 06, 2009 3:43 am

Johnny Blade wrote:I honestly don't see why you'd want Wrestle on a Witch Elf, since it's dangerous for an AV7 player and doesn't work with Frenzy.

I disagree here. Wrestle and Frenzy really help getting the ball loose. You get two shots at getting a both-down result. Add Strip Ball and/or Tackle, and she gets even better at it. And Jump-Up also plays really well with Wrestle. I've seen these skills used extremely effectively in a tournament that I attended last month.

Yes, it can be dangerous to wrestle yourself down. Normally, the witch should be hidden out of blitz range, or in a position where it is very difficult to get fouled if she does get blitzed down. At the right time, blitz the ball carrier (remember AG5, and in the future, leap) and pop the ball loose. Most of the time your opponent will be way too busy trying to get the ball back to foul the witch.

But yes, I think that it is a high reward, high risk skill for a Witch. The Witch could get Block on top of Wrestle, but I personnaly don't like the overlap.

Alternatively, develop a lineman to be a ball extractor. But you will need to give that lineman lots of skills to become effective at it. The times that I have tried this, my lineman never got enough skills to be an effective ball extractor.

Johnny Blade · Post by **Johnny Blade** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:58 pm

Admittedly, I haven't tried giving a Witch Elf Wrestle yet, and maybe I never will. Perhaps in a shorter league.

But, I really think a Witch needs Block to survive, and Wrestle also doesn't work well with crowd surfing. Especially since we're talking about an AG5 one, which just has to get Leap at some point, this is an issue for me. Leap makes that so much more effective.

I generally don't think Witches should mainly be used to get the ball loose. They can get Throwers, or generally ball handlers, in the open, and they can help defending against a cage, but I wouldn't want to use a Frenzy AV7 player to actually break one. So, I think Tackle is enough, and only to be taken once you have Block, Side Step, and in this case, Leap. Also, the other Witch Elf would mostly be better suited in this case.

Anyway, here's what I'd do with her:
Block, Side Step, Leap, Pro.

I tend to put Wrestle on Linemen. And it's not that hard to get them to three skills, although that may depend on whether you give a Runner Pass or not.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Thu May 07, 2009 4:58 pm

Johnny Blade wrote: I honestly don't see why you'd want Wrestle on a Witch Elf, since it doesn't work with Frenzy.

Johnny Blade wrote: Wrestle also doesn't work well with crowd surfing.

Bit curious as to why you mentioned this (twice as well).
I think it work just as well with Frenzy.

You do lose a certain amount of ability regarding leaving them standing for someone else but if they're prone they're less likely to be get away from the sideline.

Guess I just wanted to make sure you weren't taking an extra frenzied block when you got a Both down and used the Block skill...

Johnny Blade · Post by **Johnny Blade** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:08 pm

PubBowler wrote:Guess I just wanted to make sure you weren't taking an extra frenzied block when you got a Both down and used the Block skill...

Nah, that's a mistake I haven't made in some time.

It's just that, quite often, placing both players prone would be risky, and I often let a Witch go after her victim herself. Sometimes, this is enough for a 2 dice block anyway.
If not, however, I don't think I'd do that with a Wrestle Witch without Block, since the probability of seeing her go down would be too high in that case, and Frenzy would actually be detrimental here.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:15 pm

Leap is a really big deal on a Witch. A WE with Block or Juggernaut and Leap, plus anybody with Guard, equals flat-out-ownership of the sidelines, especially on offense. Side Step is a good insurance-policy, but if you keep her at safety and do most of your crowd-pushing on blitzes, you don't really need Side Step until skill #3: it's not like you're putting a 150k AV7 player at cornerback or on the line.