Newbie with Nurgle

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:01 pm

The AG pesti makes a splendid elf blitzer (two heads -> AG5).

Don't make a thrower out of a blitzer in a 9positional team

.

duttydave · Post by **duttydave** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:42 pm

I've been reading this thread with much interest as I was considering playing Nurgle in a league.

The standard roster seems to be 5 Rotters, 4 Warriors, 1 Pestigor a Beast and 2 Re-Rolls.

However, I was thinking of taking 3 Re-Rolls due to the limited starting skills. This would mean taking a roster comprising 6 Rotters, 3 Warriors, 1 Pestigor and a Beast.

Is this viable or are 4 Warriors essential?

Mr_lemon · Post by **Mr_lemon** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:25 pm

Duttydave: I'm no Nurgle expert and I started with the lineup you mentioned first. I'd say that it depends on the format you're playing. In a long league I would say get the Warriors and Rerolls early to make it possible to skill up the slowly improving Warriors but in a shorter league Pestigor is a must. It's the pestigors that do the magic in the Nurgle team but if you have the time to lose the first couple of games you can do it your way. But the rotters are only there to die and be replaced by positional players eventually.

Ikterus · Post by **Ikterus** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:27 am

I've been reading this thread with much interest as I was considering playing Nurgle in a league.

The standard roster seems to be 5 Rotters, 4 Warriors, 1 Pestigor a Beast and 2 Re-Rolls.

However, I was thinking of taking 3 Re-Rolls due to the limited starting skills. This would mean taking a roster comprising 6 Rotters, 3 Warriors, 1 Pestigor and a Beast.

Is this viable or are 4 Warriors essential?[/quote]Search for Nurgle threads written by Fen.

I've followed his advise to a great extent. What he emphasises is that Pestigors are the workhorses of the team. While I found this a bit dull at first I've later come to realise that he's right.

I've always started with the Beast and two Pestigors making the setup:

2 Warriors 1 Beast
2 Pestigors
6 Rotters
3 Rerolls

Concerning skill choices I can share Fen's "tactica" copied from somewhere within this forum.

Fen wrote:The major strengths of the team is it's ability to halt cages with 5 of the best starting blockers in the game (behind Flesh Golems) and also disrupt any attempts to move the ball around thanks to Disturbing Presense. The other major benefits are the Beast of Nurgle, which is one of the best big guys, focused players who are dedicated to certain jobs and cheap, disposable linemen.

Now the bad part, the team is essentially skillless for key jobs, and the skills it does have are almost passive in nature. Only Horns requires an active aim to use it. But passive doesn't mean you should be passive in using the players with the skills.

I'll now break the team down into it's sections.

1. The Blockers - Beast of Nurgle and Nurgle Warriors.
All of these have Foul Appearance when they start, which makes them very annoying and often tough to knock down. But they're not very agile or fast, so you have to be careful in where you commit them. The Beast of Nurgle is the center piece of any action for the blocking section, it's the one that has the best chance to keep players in range for blocks and is also the best piece to trap problem players like Wardancers and Catcher types. But it's slow, so often what you want to do is push players into contact with it as much as possible and keep them there.
The Nurgle Warriors are also slow, but they don't have tentacles to help pin any players in place. Once someone gets away from them, they're gone and often out of reach, this is why sticking closeish to the Beast of Nurgle helps them continue to Block.
Collectively the 5 of them also provide your anti-passing support, as they have Disturbing Presense. You can space them out against Agility teams a little to try and cover a wide area of the pitch.
Development wise it's key to remember these guys are not Chaos Warriors, they're Blockers and as such slow in development.

Skills:
Beast of Nurgle - Guard, Stand Firm, Grab, Break Tackle - Doubles: Block, Claw
Nurgle Warriors - Block, Guard, Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Prehensile Tail, Tackle, Claw, Break Tackle. Doubles: Side Step (instead of Stand Firm), some coaches like Jump Up - if you do take it, the guy will want Break Tackle as well.

Stats:
Take +MA, don't take +AV. Skip +AG on the Beast for sure, maybe take it on the Warriors, but imo I think break tackle is better if you want to be agile. You don't want these guys carrying the ball really, they're better at protecting the ball carrier. +ST is a no brainer...

The Runners/Blitzers - Pestigors
These 4 boys are the workhorses (goats?) of the team, as there is for of them you can afford to specialise them into certain types. They're your best runners with MA6 and your best Blitzers with Horns. So divide them into 2 Runners and 2 Blitzers.
On pitch they'll do most of the play making, running around, blitzing and the like. But they'll also draw the most flak, because good coaches will realise that crippling the Pestigors will hurt you more than anything else.

Skills: This is one way I build them.
Pestigor 1 - Runner - Extra Arms first, then Block, Fend, Guard, Foul Appearance
Pestigor 2 - Runner - Block, Sure Hands, Fend, Guard, Foul Appearance
Pestigor 3 - Anti-Agility Blitzer - Block, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Frenzy, Juggernaut
Pestigor 4 - Lethal Blitzer - Block, Mighty Blow, Claw, Piling On, Tackle
Doubles tend to be Dodge or for me Side Step (as I avoid Dodge because I like to make Tackle a dead skill choice against my team.)

The generic pool of good skills for pestigors is: Block, Guard, Sure Hands, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Juggernaut, Frenzy, Claw, Foul Apperance, Fend, Extra Arms, Prehensile Tail with Jump Up, Side Step and Dodge being the Doubles choices.

The reason for taking Extra Arms on one guy and Sure Hands on the other is to try and make up for being so skillless when you start. The Extra Arms player is for use against everyone without Strip Ball, the Sure Hands guy does the job vs Strip Ballers.
Also you want the Extra Arms guy early on as he catches on a 2+, this is huge in moving the ball up to safety fast and also it helps farm SPPs with those Elfball passes.

Stats: Take +AV on the Blitzer types, Consider +MA on the Runners - if you roll a ten twice pick whichever one you didn't the first time, take +AG and +ST are no brainers.

Linemen - Rotters
These guys are slow, and big tempting targets for people who like to kill things. Which is fine, if they're hitting your Rotters, they're not hitting your Pestigors. Hooray. They're fodder, don't get attached to them as they'll rarely last more than 2-3 skills, don't be afraid to score TDs with them if you have too though.

They're pretty simple to develop. You want one with Kick and the other skills are:
Block, Fend, a few Dirty Players and Doubles = Guard, Side Step on Second Doubles (like that's gonna happen!)
Stats: +AV - I don't even think +ST is worth it unless they already have +AV.

One final note with Stat increases, don't go too nuts with them. +MA is the best one for you followed by +ST. Problem is, you really need skills and Stat Increases aren't skills. So think long and hard about what you want the guy to do before you take it.
This is because the team is actually very very good with nothing but Normal skill rolls. You don't actually need any Stat increases or Doubles to build a killer team when you're playing Nurgle (and Chaos).

As for rerolls, the team wants to start with 3 and get to about 5 or 6 in the end.
And with Inducements, Igor is the inducement of choice, Borak is the best Star Player and he combos best with Ripper.

(Edit: Optimal Rerolls is 5 or 6, not 6. Probably best to stick with 5 unless you find you're turning over too much.)

More wisdom from Fen

Fen wrote: Starting with or without the beast is very much a personal decision. But I can say that starting with the beast is a serious consideration if there are a lot of Elf teams in your league. Being able to pin players in place for your Nurgle Warriors to beat up on is huge, especially if you get the Beast next to catcher/wardancer types.

With regards to Pestigors. Starting with one is most definately a mistake, two is the minimum you should start with, having just the one is putting all your eggs into one basket. Pestigors are your best ball handlers and blitzers rolled into one. Without them it becomes difficult to do anything, also on average it takes about two matches to replace one of them due to their expense.

As such there are two starting rosters I consider for a Nurgle team.

With Beast:
Beast of Nurgle - 140
3 Nurgle Warriors - 330
2 Pestigors - 160
5 Rotters - 200
2 Rerolls - 140 (The one issue with this roster)
30K for Bank/3FF

You need to earn 350K for that reroll and Nurgle Warrior before sinking cash into 2 more Pestigors. That's why I'd consider just banking the 30K so you just need 320K more.

Without:
3 Nurgle Warriors - 330
3 Pestigors - 240
5 Rotters - 200
3 Rerolls - 210
20K/2FF

This one requires 280K (BoN + Warrior) before you pick up Pestigor #4, it's about a match faster in getting to a full roster + 3 rerolls than the first one. Plus that third reroll makes the team far more reliable, but you will struggle more against Elf teams.

(Essentially the purchasing difference between the two teams is Beast of Nurgle + 30K vs. Pestigor + Reroll + 20K.)

Never directly pay money for Rotters after you start, pick them up through either dead opposing players or through loners that gain SPPs. You don't ever want to be wasting money on Rotters as your positionals and rerolls are too expensive.

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:11 pm

I played a few games now with nurgle. I really feel the rotters should not be looked down upon. They are really splendid players actually.

Decay has no effect at all on ingame performance. It only means you need to use them.. carefully.

GM access means they are tons more versatile then hobgoblins, or even norse linemen.

GM access & stat increases useful with rotters:

Strength: Block, Tackle, CLAW
AG: Wrestle/Two-heads/Tackle/Horns
AV: Block/Fend
MA: Always useless

No stat inc:
Block, Dirty Player
Block, Fend, Foul Appearance
Block, Tackle
Block, Kick
Wrestle, Tackle, Prehensile Tail

Doubles:
Dodge! -> Block/Dodge/Two-heads

The possibilities are enormous.. if you don't just squash them in the line!

I'd put the beast + 1 pestigor + 1 rotter on the line normally, if my rotters were skilled. Having one warrior in each of the corners and hiding 1 rotter + 3 pesties in between the Warrs..

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:22 pm

Just lost another 5 players to deaths and retirements in 2 games. This leaves me with not a single skilled Rotter after 27 games. I Rotter has 5 SPPs, the rest have none. The team has now lost just over half of the SPPs that it has earned...

So just a word of warning: don't get too excited about Rotters skilling up!

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:38 am

My rotter turnover in the first two games have been -1 rotter to death, +2 rotters to opponent deaths in the first game. The 2nd game 1 rotter to death another rotter to niggling injury after skilling up, would have got a +1 rotter as well, but stunties are not eligible (WHY?!?! ), especially with the new stunty bh on 9 rules it doesnt make any sense. Actually, 4 out of 4 injured rotters have all taken perms on the first or the reroll.

Still, I firmly believe a rotter can be kept safe like any positional.. I've even considered block/twoheads rotters for the 2+ dodges out of TZs. Can use the 9 pestigors & NWs and the beast to mark players and let rotters lend assists/blitz/pick up loose balls etc.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:54 pm

How does Decay provide such impact? Are you putting them on the line or in key blitz-target positions? 'Cause I haven't had nearly as much trouble as I'm hearing about here with Skaven or Pro Elf linos, which would take 3/4 as much damage if they took the same number of blocks, but have to go to the line more and get less late-game support. I mean, I stock enough cash to keep enough rats on board, and some die, but once a rat gets Block (or Wrestle in the Rat's case), he's got good odds of lasting a long time. It's not like a Rotter is a particularly tempting fouling target, especially on a team that's loaded with specialist positionals.

What am I missing? I guess if you have to protect your Pestigors, you need a Rotter to soak up the blitz. Once one develops Block and Fend on a Pestigor, is it wise to stick him at corner? He's 4x as hard to kill compared to a Rotter, though no harder to take out of the action.

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:17 pm

You're missing the composition of an initial nurgle roster, and the lack of apothecary. Typically you reroll the serious injuries (niggle, -AV, -ST, death), if the game is almost over. Else you ofc have to just let go of your linoes.

The starting team I went with had 6 rotters and 7 on the 2nd game, so majority of blocks on the rotters. Plus the warriors/beast are really not that great blitz targets (Foul app, ST4, AV9). Plus having just one pestigor, means he'll hide behind rotters.

Also, I've been unlucky. Normally the chance of losing a rotter to any CAS is 1-2/3*2/3 = 55% and then off that 55% there's still -AG/-MA which are not a complete disaster, mine's been 100% (bh/death, bh/niggle, mng/death) so far.

I do not know how smeborg manages to keep losing his rotters though, mine have advanced 21 SPPs and only lost 7 to an unlucky niggle, in two games..

If I had to guess though, smeborg puts 3 rotters on the LOS, leaving all the positionals out of blockrange in defence, instead of doing the standard orc-defence from FUMBBL, which involves putting the troll (beast) in the middle with 2 linemen (pestigor/rotter, both work).

Mr_lemon · Post by **Mr_lemon** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:43 pm

Nine games down the road, current gamerecord is 7 Wins 1 Draw 1 Loss. A lot of stats and doubles being rolled, hence the weird development on the pestigors. (which is actually annoying as you usually wants to pick block or some regular skills in the beginning.

My team now looks like:
Beast of Nurgle (4spp)
Nurgle Warrior (14spp) BLOCK (Choose it instead of a double)
Nurgle Warrior (0spp)
Nurgle Warrior (8spp) BLOCK (Took it on a roll of 6+4)
Nurgle Warrior (0spp)
Pestigor Block, AG+1 (34spp) (Rolled 6+4 now, MA+1 right?)
Pestigor SIDESTEP STRIP BALL(16spp)
Pestigor MA+1 DODGE (16spp)
Pestigor (3spp)
Rotter LEADER (9spp)
Rotter Kick(7spp)
Rotter (0spp)
Rotter Dirty Player(10spp)
Rotter (0 spp)

I have few problems with the team despite having had great results this far.
1: Too many players=High TV, but I don't want to fire healthy players (well at least as healthy as Nurgleplayers can be

) I temporarily solve the problem by fouling a lot with Rotters at the end of turns, if they ar sent off then they at least hopefully take someone with them before that.

Sooner or later I'll lose some players so I think this problem will solve itself in the long run.
2: I want two offensive and two defensive Pestigors, (read two scorers and two blitzers to pick the ball from the ballcarrying opponent).

Right now my thoughts are that the Pestigor with Block AG+1 and now MA+1 are a primary ballcarrier (was thinking sure hands and big hand next if I don't roll anything strange like leap or something) and the Pestigor with MA+1 and Dodge (I was thinking Block but after that I don't know) is the second choice for carrying the ball.

In defense I have the blitzer with Side-step and Strip Ball (was thinking Wrestle and tackle as the next two skill-ups). But how do I skill up the fourth pestigor (Block, Claws Mighty Blow?).

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:11 pm

14 players is worth it on this team, as you have cheap, effective benchwarmers who are above average foulers (subtract 1/6 total chance of casualty from chance of ejection via Nurgle's Rot, ejection risk minimizes Decay) and get great mileage from MVPs, comparable to Hobgoblins. I'd play really dirty with those guys, especially late in the first half.

In the second half, once you've used the Leader RR, foul with the Leader.

Your Pestigors are amazingly awesome. Who needs Extra Arms when you've got +1 AG? But what's with Strip Ball over Block?

Mr_lemon · Post by **Mr_lemon** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:27 pm

mattgslater wrote:14 players is worth it on this team, as you have cheap, effective benchwarmers who are above average foulers (subtract 1/6 total chance of casualty from chance of ejection via Nurgle's Rot, ejection risk minimizes Decay) and get great mileage from MVPs, comparable to Hobgoblins. I'd play really dirty with those guys, especially late in the first half.

In the second half, once you've used the Leader RR, foul with the Leader.

Your Pestigors are amazingly awesome. Who needs Extra Arms when you've got +1 AG? But what's with Strip Ball over Block?

Sounds like great advices. Depending on the number of players in the opposing team I usually foul once per turn in the end if I see a drive are close to end and/or there are valuable players on the opposing team prone.

And to answer the other question, I took strip ball over block because I seriously needed someone to strip the ball from the opponent, and so far it has worked great. And yeah the +1 AG pestigor is great but he is a huge SPP hogger....

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:47 pm

Mr_lemon wrote:And yeah the +1 AG pestigor is great but he is a huge SPP hogger....

Try to throw with him as much as you can, so you can score with other guys (the rookie first, but then focus on the Side Stepper, as he needs another skill to hit the peak of his curve). AG guy will continue to improve through Comps, which is important as he needs some skills, but you should only get TDs with him if it's the only way or once he gets close to improving.

How many TRRs do you have?

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:48 pm

Would probably skip MA on the +AG/block, he won't get many skillups after the initial 3, so you need to make em count. There's a ton of good choices really, but running with the ball is the most obvious. You need to decide which of your pestigors you want to make the runnertype, and which the blitzing type.

Would consider this:
Defensive blitzer - +MA/Dodge guy: Block/Two-Heads (defensive blitzer/backup runner, 2+ dodges to 7 squares and 2die blitzes with horns/block)

Runner - +AG/Block guy: Sure Hands, and praying for a double (dodge or ss), guard the other choice.. (offensive thrower + picks up loose balls, and standard lineman in defence).

I really think quozl's chaos team is a good reference on how to pickup the right combinations of doubles and mutations:

http://bloodbowl-ireland.org/team/id/43

I don't see any point in the SS/Strip combination, so I would sack him but seeing how well you've done so far I can't really argue as my nurgle teams have never done that well! I'd get an elf-lover, or a killer pesti instead (Block, Tackle, MB [PO] <-> Block, Mb, PO [claw])

9 Regenerating players means on an average game at LEAST one extra player from regen'd injuries. 14 players on top of that is too high for sure.. Dirty player somewhat complements that though, but then you must foul extensively.

Getting comps on your AG-runner over TD's is preferable, but it is a bit risky.. so don't do it at every occasion.

14 players is worth it on this team, as you have cheap, effective benchwarmers who are above average foulers (subtract 1/6 total chance of casualty from chance of ejection via Nurgle's Rot, ejection risk minimizes Decay)

Sadly, nurgle's rot players are added post-match, not like undead team's kills which can be used instantly. So none of the skills (rot, decay) have any ingame significance (since you cant use an apothecary in a nurgle team).

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:20 pm

Carnis wrote:Would probably skip MA on the +AG/block, he won't get many skillups after the initial 3, so you need to make em count.

Spit my coffee out when I read that MA7 doesn't count.

Sadly, nurgle's rot players are added post-match, not like undead team's kills which can be used instantly. So none of the skills (rot, decay) have any ingame significance (since you cant use an apothecary in a nurgle team).

That, however, was a good point. Still, 13, 14... the difference is 40k.

SS/Strip isn't optimal in my book either, but I do see some combo applications. Get an SS guy next to the loose ball, and you can't dislodge him with a push. He really needs Block.