Pro Elf Qs

[Wanchor]

I recommend Accurate and following Matt's advice, mostly. Accurate with Agility 4 will be a pretty solid base for your passing game, and it doesn't get much easier to catch the ball than with Catch and Nerves of Steel.

As far as saving up for another player goes, I'm usually stuck in the goblin mindset and seeing only eleven players with AV 7 just about everywhere screams at me to get spares and fast, but then, I suppose elves are much more capable of scoring when outmanned than my gobbos are. I say save up for the catcher - you said yourself that your offense needs a bit of a boost and opening up another receiver might be just the option you need (assuming you do indeed take Accurate for your thrower, that is).

[Ullis]

I'd take Accurate on the thrower, especially if you're having problems on offence. Moneywise, I'd save up for another catcher. They're wonderful.

But I was surprised too about having troubles with Strip Ball and offence in general. When you have AG4, Nerves of Steel, catch and ok speed on the pitch, the only thing between offensive TD's is a set of double ones. But that's just probably due to playing a team that you haven't played before or getting all your players killed in the first half.

Picking up with the thrower and hanging back, perhaps even passing or handing off to someone who can run back in case of a shallow kick, and then moving up in the turn you're going to score is a tactic that's not too easy to counter. Putting enough TZ's on the catchers requires enveloping them from all sides due to Nerves of Steel. Usually it can run into trouble when a team can tie up your offensive players in the center (and wood elves shouldn't have the required strength for that) and still commit two players to your back field to hunt the ball carrier, but even in those cases the other team can be outpositioned even if you can't score right away. I think the worst case scenario (apart from fumbling the ball somehow) is that you simply cannot make a hole in the line to get into their side.

All that of course requires at least two catchers to work smoothly.

[Master Wang]

I've been surprised by my offensive problems too, as my Skaven team have been fine. It's a bad excuse, but I think luck has played a part, I've had passes intercepted or catchers roll double 1s. The other problem is I've been trying on offense to score with specific players (mainly linemen) to skill them up, but I guess I'm not quite good enough yet.

As for the Strip Ball Wardancer game, I actually scored on both my offensive drives, but only after a bit of good luck, and in more than 2 turns. That game saw neither of us halt the other when defending, but he had one more offensive drive than me, and won on the last turn with a leap and a dodge.

Anyway, I'll follow what everyone says and take Accurate.

[mattgslater]

If you're not happy with your O, receive first if you win the coin toss. Since most people mostly kick first, you'll almost always be able to run offensive plays at full strength until you get good at it (and build a bench). Then start kicking first when you're ready to try for a go-ahead from man-down.

If you take this advice, here's a corollary against ST3 d-lines: stack the offensive line. Don't avoid them, don't just man up on them, but load 7 on the LOS, with linos/Blitzer you want to score with on the left* edge (next to the WZ) and two Catchers one or two squares behind the LOS, preferably within diagonal range of the intended hole. Block diagonally, pushing right (open with your Center) to maximize your chances of scoring an early casualty, and to take defenders out of the way. Everyone who doesn't block should race downfield, except your QB and whoever will chuck to/block for him (preferably a guy who needs 1 SPP) to hang out on the right-side backfield. Don't follow blocks if you think your player will interfere with the chain, but the third blocker (the "Tackle" on the left) should follow in any case, as after he blocks there isn't anyone to push into him. This will get you a big hole into which you can pour your Catchers, and at least one downfield lino or Blitzer who's an improvement target. Players on the right side of the line who don't have to block can go in to blitz and run a route, or can provide cover or assists, or if you're clever, all of the above, blitzing and covering deep. It's best if one guy drops back, interposing himself between the right-side defenders who will rush and the QB (otherwise you're screwed on a fumble or flubbed pickup).

*Feel free to reverse everything, and go right. I'm describing a left-handed attack because "strong" and "weak" sounds weird in a 2-tight-end formation, but go whichever way is easier, or whatever.

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A little susceptible to the Blitz...
- - - -|L B L L L B L|- - - -
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Less so, but more vulnerable to skulls...
- - - -|L B L L C B L|- - - -
- - L -|- - - - - - -|- L - -
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(don't block with the Catcher on the line; instead, pull him out to use as a receiver; conventionally, I use the Blitzer at that spot to blitz with, and in the process run a route)

[Master Wang]

Thanks Matt, I'll try that next time I'm up against a ST3 team. I've been spending most of my offenses going down the wide zones using the Blitzers and the odd lineman to protect the catchers. Will see how this goes.

[mattgslater]

Ooh... improvement! This will give you maximum capitalization on the offchance of a Quick Snap.

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- - - -|L B L L L B L|- - - -
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Throw to the Thrower with a player pulled off the line or with a Catcher if the ball goes shallow, and with the Lineman if it goes deep.

I've been spending most of my offenses going down the wide zones using the Blitzers and the odd lineman to protect the catchers.

That works sometimes, but it's risky, because it's not too hard to force throws into traffic, and the defense always knows which way the play is going. I find it's much easier to punch a hole up the gut, then guide the play one way or the other, unless the defense is very strong, when that's not an option. Part of the problem is that only two guys can get really deep penetration by going around the corner: the others all have to start inside the hashmarks and lose 3 squares.

One great skill for sideline plays is Leap. Put it on a Catcher, then have that Catcher leap and race into the enemy backfield on the back side of the developed play. If the opponent doesn't put a man on him, score. If he does, score anyway, most likely, or throw to another guy. if the defense mobs or blitzes him, someone else gets the score.

[Carnis]

Stacking the LOS is very prone to perfect defence and blitz. Where it can easily lead to 7 dodges, instead of 3 freeblocks.. I wouldn't really recommend it as a general strat, against more than a small niche of players.

[voyagers_uk]

To bring the tactics of the PC game into this equation. Playing some sides I have started to use "The Wall"

.

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- B TS -|B - B DR B - B|- TS B -
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- - - -|- BL - - - R -|- - - -
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I will use my Dwarf team as an example of the defence you would face.

How would you best set-up to exploit this?

Assume
B - Blockers have Guard
TS - TrollSlayers have Standfirm

R - Runner has Blackle
BL - Blitzer has Mighty Blow

[DoubleSkulls]

I don't think that's a very useful question. Basically you are asking a highly theoretical question about highly developed teams.

With an equivalently skilled Orc team I'd just pound the crap out of him and try and surf the two end blockers. Troll, 4 BOBs, 4 Blitzer with as many skills as you've listed there (e.g. every blocker has guard) I'd have guard and other stuff too.

Woodies take out the blockers on the edge of the widezone and run through. Man mark the Blitzer and Runner with SS/DT players and it would be a fairly easy score. In fact get enough players down field and waste a couple of turns while he tracks back too.

[voyagers_uk]

1 skill per player is hardly highly developed (ok the runner has 2)

it wasn't so much a how would you smack the snot out of me as how you would best set-up to exploit the fact that with the exception of 2 players everyone is on the line

tactically from a starting line-up point of view... with Pro Elves.

any plan only survives first contact with the enemy... so it was just a set-up question

[mattgslater]

@Voyagers: I have an answer, but I have to go to work. I'd eat that D for lunch and you'd forswear it forever. I'll show you later.

Frankly, it looks like an offensive setup. If that's what it is, I take it back, and will have to reevaluate. Please clarify.

[voyagers_uk]

Defense, My Offense is more agressive than that

[mattgslater]

Not a PC player, so not sure on the differences.

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- B S -|B - B DR B - B|- TS B -
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In microcosm...

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- B S -|B - B DR

So here's me. "W" is "L" with Wrestle. "?" may or may not be some badass who can take out a Dwarf all by himself, like a Lino with Wrestle if you have a TRR. Or he might have Guard. Or ? might be empty.

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- L - W|L ? - -
- B S -|B - B DR

First, W blocks inside, pushing his man down the line and not following. If he doesn't knock down, ? or L may or may not get in on the action (L if ? has Guard), or I might try the other side. I get several bites at the 3/4 apple with just those seven guys.

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Ideal
- L - W|- ? - -
- B S -|- b B DR
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- - - -|- L - -

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Acceptable
- L - W|- - - -
- B S -|- L B DR
- - - -|- - B
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- - - -|- ? - -

[Carnis]

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-- BB TS --|BB -- BB DR BB -- BB|-- TS BB --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- BL -- -- -- RR --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --

How would you best set-up to exploit this?

If I have frenzy OR GRAB, then it's a nobrainer to attempt to crowd both your sideline blockers.

If no frenzy, then just play one side:

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-- LL LL --|LL LL LL --
-- BB TS --|BB -- BB DR 
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- --

Get an assist, and block the side guard (if push, push towards sideline, if POW, push toward center). After side guard, block the TS. If you get a POW, its an instant side-crowdpush. If you get a push (after burning the reroll, too), you'll probably need to blitz the TS. Anyway, the two "cases" end like this: Center (first block pow, no push) & Side (first block push, attempt to crowdpush).

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"Center" Sequence:
L1 moves to give assist
L2 blocks BB, gets a POW, follow
B3 blocks ts , a POW (or wrestle) is again, necessary to avoid a free attempt at a crowdpush
L4 moves to give assist
L5 blocks BB -> left lane is clear for catchers & blitzers to run into.
L1 -- B3 L4|-- LL LL --
-- L2 ts --|L5 -- BB DR 
-- -- BB --|-- BB -- --
-- -- -- --|-- BB -- --

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"Side" Sequence: 
L1 moves to give assist
L2 blocks BB, gets a push, no follow
B3 blocks the ts (needs a POW, or wrestle)
L4 moves in to give assist
L5 Blocks BB (needs a push or a pow)
L6 moves in to give assist for the crowd (needs a POW or a PUSH)
B7 2die blitzes a blocker into the crowd. If you fail early (ie, a pow, instead of a push early) dont go for this.
L1 L2 B3 L4|-- LL LL --
-- -- ts --|L5 -- BB DR 
B7 -- -- --|-- BB -- --
-- L6 -- --|-- BB -- --

[Master Wang]

Played another game with them against a reroll-less, Wight-less, Ghoul-less team (the coach is much better than me, and is experimenting). I won, I wouldn't post if I hadn't , but the game has raised a couple of other questions/thoughts:

1)
Does this team ever get to a point where you have a bench? 2 Linemen died in this game, and I got 2 MNGs as well! This was particularly depressing as I have been working hard to get them spps.

2)
Should I keep the apothecary solely for use on expensive positionals? I can't see it being worth the risk to use him on anyone other than Catchers and Blitzers.

The plus points of the game were high winnings, allowing me to get a 3rd Catcher, although one is MNG; my other Catcher got his second skill so now has Wrodge; a Lineman who got the MVP rolled double 5. I think the team is fast enough, so I guess he'll get Guard. How best to use/protect him? What should his development be if he survives?