Undead advice wanted! [NTBB league]

[mattgslater]

I'm omitting two players, on the basis you'll need them to secure the ball. You'll free up a third player for this purpose too. g = ST5/Grab. The one on the left should have guard. f = Frenzy. This setup works best if the frenzy player on the left is a Ghoul, and if you have a SS Ghoul and KOR Ghoul to hang out in the backfield and protect the ball, and especially if the center has ST4 and Guard. It takes some building to really make a wrecking ball, but when it works it's great fun. The best part about this is that failure usually just means premature pow or unfavorable scatter, and the worst likely outcome is not getting your extra blocks in. If you don't, it still concentrates your guys near midfield, so you can develop a more traditional cage. (I really designed it to use with Orcs, who are better at ball security. You'll see some cases where it implies more ST than you can muster, because I made it for BOBs. Still variants are easy.)

– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– – x x x – –|– – – –
– – – –|f g o o o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o o – – f – –|– – – –

If the ball scatters shallow right, you have to go to your secondary plan. Otherwise...

1) kick-out diagonal from center
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– * o x x – –|– – – –
– – – –|f g o – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o o – – f – –|– – – –

2) Grab for push (3d if center has Guard)
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– * o x – – –|– – – –
– – – –|f g o x o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o o – – f – –|– – – –

3) Chain for pushes
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – g|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|o * o x – – –|– – – –
.– – – –|f x f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o o – – – – –|– – – –

4) If push/push (a little luck, yes), chain again, this time for pow (skip if pow)
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – g|o – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|* * o x – – –|– – – –
.– – – –|f o f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –

5) Finish off the line
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – g|o – * – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|* * o – – – –|– – – –
.– – – –|f o f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –

6) Throw free block #1
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– o * – – x –|– x – –
– – – g|– – * – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|* * o – – – –|– – – –
.– – – –|f o f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –

7) Throw free block #2
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – g *|– o * – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – * – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|* * o – – – –|– – – –
.– – – –|f o f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –

Secure your cage-front
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – g *|– o * – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – * – – – –|– – – –
– – – o|* * o – – – –|– – – –
.– – – –|f o f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –

9) Blitz
– – – f |– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – *|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – g *|– o * – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – * – – – –|– – – –
– – – o|* * o – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– o f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –

Alternate: if ball goes shallow right, move one of the two backfielders on the left first, plus one of the two fullbacks
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– – x x x – –|– o – –
– – – –|f g o o o g –|– – o –
– – – –|o – – – f – –|– – – –

1) Grab-push
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– x – x x – –|– o – –
– – – –|f g o o o g –|– – o –
– – – –|o – – – f – –|– – – –


2) Kick-out with right guard
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – * – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– x – o x – –|– o – –
– – – –|f g o o – g –|– – o –
– – – –|o – – – f – –|– – – –

3) Frenzy past scrimmage
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – * – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– – f o x – –|– o – –
– – – –|– g o x o g –|– – o –
– – – –|o – – – f – –|– – – –

4) chain
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – * – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– – f o x o –|– o – –
– – – –|– g – o x g –|– – o –
– – – –|o – – – f – –|– – – –

5) Block
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – * x * –|– – – –
.– – – –|– – f o f o –|– o – –
– – – –|– g – o – g –|– – o –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –

6) Blitz
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– * x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– – – –
– – – –|– – – * x * –|– g – –
.– – – –|– – f o f o –|– o – –
– – – –|– g – o – – –|– – o –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –

7) Final line-block
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – * – x –|– – * –
– – – –|– – – * – * –|– g – –
.– – – –|– – f o f o –|– o – –
– – – –|– g – o – – –|– – o –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –

[mattgslater]

Alternate version:
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– – x x x – –|– – – –
– – – –|f g o o o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o o – – f – –|– – – –

1) kick-out diagonal from center
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– * o x x – –|– – – –
– – – –|f g o – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o o – – f – –|– – – –

2) Grab for push (3d if center has Guard)
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– * o x – – –|– – – –
– – – –|f g o x o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o o – – f – –|– – – –

3) Chain for pushes
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – g|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|o * o x – – –|– – – –
– – – –|f * f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o o – – – – –|– – – –

4) cover with one of the backfield players
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – x –|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – g|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|o * o x – – –|– – – –
– – – –|f * f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –

5) Grab-block
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– – – *|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – –g|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|o * o x – – –|– – – –
– – – –|f * f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –


6) Move up the assist
– x – –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– o – *|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – g|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– * o x – – –|– – – –
– – – –|f * f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –

7) Surf
– – f –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– o – *|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – g|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– * o x – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– * f – o g –|– – – –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –

8) Last line-block
– – f –|x – – – – – x|– – x –
– o – *|– x – – – x –|– x – –
– – – g|– – – * – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– * o o – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– * f – – g –|– – – –
– – – –|o – – – – – –|– – – –

[Shteve0]

Matt, I don't know what to say. Your posts are awesome, and clearly took a lot of work. Unfortunately I have no point of reference for what you're showing me, and have no doubt whatsoever that it's to my detriment that I don't understand what it is you're driving at. Please explain? I really do want to be able to interpret these charts... Perhaps if I understood which way was LoS and what it is I'm looking to achieve by following the process?

Meanwhile, game 2 is now down - a fairly fortunate 1-0 grind victory over a wood elf team missing a wardancer and set up without catchers or tree - and I have my first block Mummy (cas+MVP) and 40k winnings put straight into my 13th man, a fifth zombie.

Game wise, I ran into problems when I had the ball, struggling to remove elves and make progress upfield in the first half, but making up for it when ball hunting. I'm starting to recognise that within my game - more often than I'd care to admit, I'm far more effective kicking than receiving. On this particular occasion, I failed to set up a proper cage after a deep kick, and it took me a good four turns to settle near midfield, something I'd have hoped to do in two. As a result, without having been able to throw a lot of blocks in the build up, my opponent had little trouble stalling me and I ended up trying to force desperate odds.

Kicking for the second half, I had a much clearer goal, and after flattening or basing most of the elves, I ran my blodging ghoul through the centre of the pitch - ST5 Grab is truly a thing to behold. When my opponent subsequently (and inopportunely) failed a couple of dodges, I was able to cage the ball, get a couple of CASs in with a wight, and kick his failed-leap wardancer in the face with five assists on the way to a second 1-0 win in two games.

Skill development wise, i'm hopful of endong my next game with another block or two on the board, but I face a (ST4 goat boasting) Chaos team next time out and fear getting my arse kicked. I have the deeper bench and four block to his one, but he has the strength advantage. Any tips on this one?

[mattgslater]

Oops. Sorry. x is defender, o is you, * is prone defender, f and g are Frenzy and Grab. It's how to break a zig with chainpushes into extra blocks. Takes enough Grab and Frenzy that it's hard for most teams to pull off. But two Grab Mummies....

The core idea is that you Grab a defender across the line so you can chainpush one of your pieces into the other side's midfielder. You can get two of them if you want, and a little luck means you can work out a surf.

[mattgslater]

Edited posts to underline LOS. Hopefully that will help.

[Shteve0]

Mate, that's awesome - no need for the underline, all crystal clear!

Top work - I'm simultaneously deeply impressed and terrified at the prospect of meeting you on the BB pitch...

Thanks man great stuff!

[mattgslater]

It's not particularly reliable, I have to say. It's not especially dangerous (lots of very easy rolls with RR seldom turn you over badly), but you will often burn a RR on your T1 blocks (even with Block and/or 3d on most or all of the hits), and very frequently it will just fail, because you end up taking unwanted pows and stuff like that. (Not a big deal; that's basically what would happen with a more traditional blocking strategy anyway.) It's especially good against slow, bashy teams that are built to collapse the cage rather than pressuring in space (hard to collapse the cage that just wrecked your flank), or against anybody stupid enough to set up his midfield one square back of scrimmage against you, where you can load up on the crazy smackage.

I've been trying to build a set of flowcharts, but while I can see it in my head I'm having a hard time figuring out how to get it into a 2d medium (my brain wants to think of flowcharts as multi-dimensional). The problem is that a full diagram, 15 spaces wide, is too large for easy charting: it takes several pages to chart just one play.

There are a lot of variants, too. The main key is to make it happen either with 8 players, or with 9 and a reliable, safe repositioning option if the lie of the ball makes it feel too risky. Remember, when turnover risk isn't decisive, ball before bodies. So cover that ball, and make sure you can finish in a position to cage safely.

[Shteve0]

Flash is your best bet, I think. There used to be some free flash builders around that would be bang on for this sort of thing, and it's very quick and easy to pick up.

Still I'm a little way off this sort of thing yet, but I appreciate it. The key aim for me this week is to form a holding cage and get some damage in when receiving. I'm confident that I can defend well enough, particularly as my opponent is short of block/dodge (1/0 to my 4/4), its ball retention I'm concerned about.

That ST4 goat looks particularly ripe for a kick in the head, while we're at it...

[mattgslater]

At least practice diagonal blocking, if you don't do so already. That way, you maximize your pows. Against a tight defensive line, always open with the center blocking the end away from playside, pushing laterally if no pow, and not following.

Thanks for good Flash idea.

[Shteve0]

Thanks man - I do, and Grab is a treat for maximising blocks

Played my third game today, although not, as I'd previously expected, against Chaos. Long story short, my 2xcas wight and two ghouls (each with a TD already to their names from the previous games) scored in a 3-1 win... As for my opponent's scorer? Well, he's on my team now

With both Mummy's cas'ing in this game, the second attracted the MVP, giving me four skillrolls in the postmatch - all of which came up normal, which suit me fine. Conveniently, the first mummy to skill now stands at 11 SPP, a clear MVPer next game, with mighty blow my prefered selection.

The team now looks as follows:
2x Mummy, Block/Grab
1x Wight, MB/Block/Regen
1x Wight, Block/Regen
2x Ghoul, Block/Dodge
1x Ghoul, Dodge/Strip Ball
1x Ghoul, Dodge
6x Zombie
3x Reroll
3x Fan Factor

Taking me to a grand total of 1.3m after 3 games, with 60k banked. Ouch.

Question - am I doing the right thing stockpiling zombies like this? I've not found myself needing any subs yet except, ironically enough, in my first game (when I didn't have any). At the same time, my ghouls are vulnerable and I'm very aware that it only takes a couple of rolls to end up short of numbers. Plus, more zombies = more fouling, and in this league fouling rules! I feel like it's too early to trim weight, and with few block or sure hands players in the league the block and strip ball I've taken so far feel like very good value.

Cheers!

S

[spubbbba]

14 players does seem a little excessive 3 games in.

Having subs for fouling is great but getting them sent off still means you are down a player for that drive so it’s usually still only worth it against a valuable target or later in the half.

If MVP’s weren’t chose then it might be worthwhile having 6 zombies in the hope of getting them a skill. But since you can choose them then I’d probably keep to 13 players max until you get to 1500 TV or start facing a lot of MB and other bashy skills.

One thing to watch out for is the positionals skilling up too fast. It can leave you vulnerable if the mummies get taken out or left out the action. So if a zombie gets a cas then you may wan to consider giving him the MVP in the hope of getting guard or at least some block/wrestle or dp to make the fouling more effective.

[mattgslater]

I'm with Spub on all counts.

[Shteve0]

Awesome, thanks guys. For better or for worse, I kept the 14th man for my game against Chaos, and he duly played no part as the game finished Cas-less.

With my TV at 130 and my opponent 115 I was fully expecting to face a wizard until my opponent pointed out that NTBB wizards have been increased to 200k. He chose a tackle beast instead, a hard counter to my four ghouls.

I won the FAME and the toss, choosing to receive, with my opponent rolling Get the Ref on kick off. Conscious of the need to clear out some of my opponent's strength advantage I set about hitting and fouling at every opportunity, though failed to foul through armour or remove a player until turn 6, at which point my Grab mummies cleared a gap and allowed my strip ball ghoul to make a dash to the end zone turn 8 for 1-0.

Second half, we failed to bring back a KO'd player each (though his warrior was a bigger loss than my zombie). A particularly deep kick (5 to back corner) followed by a Perfect Defence roll and a bounce into sideline left me well placed to line up my mummies on the near side of the LoS and run through a pair of blodge ghouls and my strip ball player. What followed was a mess, with the ball repeatedly changing hands and a scrambled 2 GFI TD in turn 8 to take the 2-0. Both my opponent and I had straightforward MVP choices, my mummy gaining a normal and his warrior getting a(nother) strength boost - the team's second +ST in three skill rolls.

So, with four out of sixteen games down and a 4-0-0 record, I'm pleased with progress but still very much concerned about the rate at which my TV is growing.

Here's the readout of the side now:
2 x block ghoul
1 x strip ball ghoul (12spp)
1 x ghoul
6 x zombie
1 x block mummy
1 x block mummy + NORMAL
1 x MB wight
1 x wight
3 x RR
4 x FF
120,000 GP

Under NTBB, up to 100,000GP of that treasury can be banked, leaving a mimimum 20k of it counting towards my TV for the next match.

I'm so torn between MB and Guard for my mummy. MB feels right for the meta - AV7 is everywhere in this league - but Guard just feels like a great enabling skill. I lost count of the amount of times this evening I was able to reach into a mass of bodies with a mummy, remove one and replace it with a ST5 hulk. I plays hell with your opponent's caging plans and to add assists to the mix would be huge. Help!

Next big call is the cash. My balance is 120k but I have full positionals, 3 RR and too many linemen as it is. What would you do with this?

Finally, the next game is going to require another decision. If a zombie gets a CAS I'll slap the MVP on him, otherwise it's looking likely I'll add Wrestle to the Strip Ball ghoul. That said, if a CAS or score landed on the unskilled wight, would you be tempted to push into tackle? I've not felt rushed to take it yet, but there will come a time when I can't do without it, and I'd like to be ready for that time when it arrives.

Thanks for your help guys!

S

[mattgslater]

Guard is awesome. MB is hit/miss.

[plasmoid]

Hi Shteve0,
Congrats on your 4th win. You're certainly making a case for mummies not needing G.
Anyway, just wanted to ask: Didn't your league raise the Bank cap above 100k?