Pro Elf Qs

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:29 pm

Master Wang wrote: 1)
Does this team ever get to a point where you have a bench? 2 Linemen died in this game, and I got 2 MNGs as well! This was particularly depressing as I have been working hard to get them spps.

2)
Should I keep the apothecary solely for use on expensive positionals? I can't see it being worth the risk to use him on anyone other than Catchers and Blitzers.

The plus points of the game were high winnings, allowing me to get a 3rd Catcher, although one is MNG; my other Catcher got his second skill so now has Wrodge; a Lineman who got the MVP rolled double 5. I think the team is fast enough, so I guess he'll get Guard. How best to use/protect him? What should his development be if he survives?

The problem with any AV7 team is death and mangled players. There's no getting around it. That said, the linemen are pretty cheap whereas the blitzers and catchers cost a lot. This means that the linemen should probably be denied apo rights. Still, I think that a pro elf team benefits a lot from having skilled linemen. Having more Block+Side-steppers is great although the classic Blodge works great too.

I'd take Dodge on the Guarding lineman (since you've gone down the dodging route anyway) followed by Block or Side-step.

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:07 pm

Thanks for all the advice guys. The team played again last night getting 3-0 against a Slann side. I've decided my offensive problems are mostly down to bad luck as I had moved his entire D to one side of the pitch and had set everything up to switch to the other when my catcher double 1'ed. But he redeemed himself later while getting the ball back, so nothing too bad there.

I haven't had the chance to try and go through the middle yet due to opponents' higher ST or their set ups leaving centre very congested (but wide zones open).

The team now looks like this and I have a skill up, purchasingand set up questions.

Blitzer Block, Side step, Dodge*Normal Skill
Blitzer Block, Side step, Dodge
Catcher Catch, Nerves of Steel, Wrestle, Dodge
Catcher Catch, Nerves of Steel, Dodge, Wrestle
Catcher Catch, Nerves of Steel, Dodge
Lineman Kick, Dodge
Thrower Pass, Accurate
Lineman Dodge
Lineman Guard
Lineman Dodge
Apothecary
3 RR
FF 6
110K

When things go well, I'm finding it very pleasant having the whole team geared towards ball retrieval, but what next on the Blitzer? Diving Tackle as suggested earlier in the thread, Fend to help him survive, Tackle (it's ear marked for the 2 most developed Catchers at the moment, but they are 12 and 13 spps away from their next skill up), or something else?

With the money, I could get the 4th Catcher, but lacking a bench I'll have to expose skilled and/or expensive players on defence. Get him anyway? Unfortunately I'm just short of buying two linemen which is what I might have considered.

Which brings me to the setup questions, I’m looking to protect my less skilled catchers, kicker and thrower. Unless I’m facing Frenzy, how about this?

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- DL GL DL -- --|-- -- -- -- 
-- WC -- --|BL -- -- -- -- -- BL|-- -- WC -- 
-- -- DC --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- UC -- -- 
-- -- -- --|-- KL -- -- -- TH --|-- -- -- -- 
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- 
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --

DL = Lineman w/Dodge
GL = Lineman w/Guard
WC = Catcherw/wrestle+Dodge
BL = Blitzer
KL = Lineman w/Kick
TH = Thrower
DC = Catcher w/Dodge
UC = Unskilled Catcher

Against Frenzy, I'd switch the Blitzers and Wrodge Catchers. I feel sorry I have to put the Guard guy on the line, but there's no one else to go there. Just hope he survives the next game or two...

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:46 pm

I was thinking Leap, Dauntless, Strip Ball, Tackle and Diving Tackle, but I really don't have any clear preferences. I guess it's down to your opponents. Both Tackle and Diving Tackle combo nicely with Side-step, as does Strip Ball with against cages without Sure Hands, but if you'll be taking Tackle on the catchers, then I guess Diving Tackle could be nice. Leap is a bit of a waste due to already having Side step.

What are your plans with all the cash? It seems you only have 10 players so I might actually go and buy a few linos next instead of the fourth catcher. You could stick them on the los instead of the guarding lineman who I think is someone you should look to protect a bit (meaning no los duty generally if it can be avoided). The problem right now is that you can't afford two linos so buying just one would bring you to 11 players.

Concerning the set-up, I always have difficulties finding reasons not to put the blitzers in the wide zones due to side-step, especially against agile sides.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:48 pm

Ullis wrote:Concerning the set-up, I always have difficulties finding reasons not to put the blitzers in the wide zones due to side-step, especially against agile sides.

+1. In fact, Ullis's advice is very good all-round.

You need a positioning skill to run that inverted wide zone. Otherwise, the corner will get crowd-surfed. Either go back to a standard alignment or get Side Step players in the corners. MA7 players are good there too, as at least one of them will be on the back-side of the play and will be a good candidate to put a TZ on the ball. And you want them on their feet, so Blodge would be nice. And they'll get hit anyway, so, maybe if you had some AV8 guys? Hmmm... where would you find those? Best cornerback in the game. For improving them (after Dodge) I like Frenzy, Tackle, Diving Tackle, and Dauntless. Jump Up makes a great #3 combo with a few of those skills. Leap is for Catchers, and it rules!

You have 10 men, right? Against bash teams, there's no reason you can't put a Side Stepper on the line instead of a Guard player. If Guard won't help out on the line of scrimmage, put him in the backfield. Should you suspect yourself to be the underdog, don't even take the Journeyman and instead put SS on a Merc. Remember, if you do your job right, he'll get hit straight up once per score, so there's a bit of perversity going on if you're putting an AV7 Guard player at the nose when he can't do any good. Against all ST3, different story: put him there with pride.

Wanchor · Post by **Wanchor** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:02 pm

I like your set-up except as it concerns the lineman with Guard. With assists on the outside, you'll be taking two-die blocks on the wings anyway, probably resulting in pushes due to dodge, but your Guard-elf doesn't have it and he'll be eating a two-die block after only one push, guaranteed. Maybe three dice by a big guy. He'd probably be better used to protect the ball carrier.

Also, I recommend filling the bench before nabbing another catcher.

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:09 am

I really wasn't paying attention with that set up, glad I didn't use it and get my best players surfed! I still haven't picked the Blitzer's skill or spent the money. Another quick question - would you aim to develop the Blitzers in the same way, or have them both doing different things such as man marker and big guy hitter? I like symmetry, but the idea of giving one DT, Jump Up and Tackle and the other Dauntless + something else seems interesting....

Wanchor · Post by **Wanchor** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:28 am

I would develop them differently, but with a common base with of a few skills that I find most useful or pivotal to my team's success. Diving Tackle is a big one, but I'm not sure whether I'd give it to more than one blitzer unless I had more than two.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:35 pm

It depends on what else you have. If you have a killer safety or inside backer, or if you have some other way to funnel your opponent to one side, then you should perhaps develop one Blitzer as a cornerback and the other as a pass-rusher.

It's painful to use Dauntless on this team. You're better off picking your blocks and beating up on ball-carriers. Get a Dodge lino to soak up big guys if you must: 91/216 (plus 8 more both-downs) is a worthwhile risk and 11/36 (plus 3 both-downs) is great. If you get to a #3 improvement on a Dodge/Block or Dodge/Wrestle lino, consider Dauntless. For Blitzers, I like Dodge followed by a choice of Tackle, Frenzy and Jump Up, with Pro as a solid 3rd selection (after Frenzy as an extra bite at the apple, or after Jump Up to re-roll stand-up-and-Block failures (you know, the ones that don't cause a turnover) and act as a last-ditch utility piece for when you've run out of TRRs (2+ w/ Pro = better than 3+ w/TRR). Diving Tackle is a great #3 follow-up to Tackle or Jump Up. Blodge+SS+Jump Up is very discouraging to play against.

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:57 pm

Took Diving Tackle and it just helped a little in a 4-1 win against a Norse team by causing a nicely timed turnover.

Unfortunately a double 1 by a catcher to scoop up the ball and score led to the death of my Dodge, Kick lineman

It was early in the game so I didn't use the Apothecary, and never did all match!). Hired a rookie lineman after the match and still no bench. I now have two skill-less, spp-less ones to try and skill.

My other Blitzer skilled, so given I took DT on the first, what for the second? I'm thinking Tackle...

Also my newest Catcher with Dodge got his second skill and rolled doubles. Plan had been Block, anything worth taking? Guard seems inappropriate.

The team at the moment:

Blitzer Block, Side step, Dodge Diving Tackle
Blitzer Block, Side step, Dodge *normal skill
Catcher Catch, Nerves of Steel, Wrestle, Dodge
Catcher Catch, Nerves of Steel, Dodge, Wrestle
Catcher Catch, Nerves of Steel, Dodge *doubles
Lineman
Thrower Pass, Accurate
Lineman Dodge
Lineman Guard
Lineman Dodge
Lineman
Apothecary
3 RR
FF ?? 6 or 7 ??
50K

btw, got some revenge as I killed a lineman too, but not a 2 skill one of great importance.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:57 pm

Dump-off for the Catcher. Sorry to hear about the Kicker.

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:39 pm

I'd still go guard, but meh.

Easier to win games with the opponent knocked down than your own team knocked down. Dump-off is a skill that is VERY hard to get mileage out of on a receiver. If you're relying on dump-off then you're playing to lose, and if you aren't relying on dump off then you're wasting a double. An AG4 dodging ma8 guard on the other hand can be super annoying..

Wanchor · Post by **Wanchor** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:27 am

I agree about Dump-Off, it'd be my choice. Of course, it depends on how you use your team. Maybe Thick Skull if you feel like being funny and uncharacteristic (or find that he gets fouled a whole lot). Tackle, Frenzy, Dauntless and Jump Up would be the options from which to pick as it concerns the blitzer.

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:43 am

I'm almost 100% sure it'll be Tackle on the blitzer. The catchers I want to give it to are still a few touchdowns or lucky MVPs away from skilling and there is a lot more Dodge around now - even the Norse runner had it yesterday. I like the idea of Frenzy on one of them, especially after seeing it used against me yesterday, but don't have any experience using it (my Orcs have it, so I'll practice with them).

The Catcher... MA 8 Dodge, Guard does look very useful followed by Block and Leap to help with cage breaking. NOS and Dump Off is obviously a great combo but turns him into a very offensive focused player. That wouldn't be a bad thing if I could bench him on Defense.

I've never played this many league games, so having all these skills to pick is unusual.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:23 am

See, I like Dump-off on defense as a ball-recovery mechanism. If you need a TRR to get the ball you don't necessarily want to be throwing it. Dump-off solves that problem: just pick up and hold on, and then when you get blitzed, dump off.

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:22 am

Hmm...interesting point.