would you turn down Stats if you had too many?

[Funksultan]

[There's never any contest to +ST, maybe on a snotling.. But even a goblin who gets 2 +ST will be 2die blitzing to cages while ignoring tacklezones..

I'll still pass on this one. 50k tv on a goblin, just for st3, still isn't gonna pay off. Let alone keeping him around for the 1/36 chance of that 2nd +ST, assuming he lives long enough and gets lucky enough for another skill. Even IF it happens, yeah, +100k for a 2 die block into a cage, for a player without block, and is still made of paper. (any player with 2 plus stats is a foul magnet for sure)

While we're at it, we may as well hope the elves fail to pick up the ball 8 turns in a row. *grin*

D

[mattgslater]

On a Goblin team? A ST3 Goblin is a big deal. On an Orc or Underworld team? Meh, could go either way.

[Smeborg]

On a Goblin team? A ST3 Goblin is a big deal. On an Orc or Underworld team? Meh, could go either way.

A ST3 Gobbo on an Underworld team could also acquire Horns and 2-Heads, giving him a 2+ dodge into a cage at ST4. Worth having, I humbly suggest.

[mattgslater]

On a Goblin team? A ST3 Goblin is a big deal. On an Orc or Underworld team? Meh, could go either way.

A ST3 Gobbo on an Underworld team could also acquire Horns and 2-Heads, giving him a 2+ dodge into a cage at ST4. Worth having, I humbly suggest.

Yeah, you're right. It's pretty much an Orc thing, I guess.

[Funksultan]

On a Goblin team? A ST3 Goblin is a big deal.

My gobbo experience is lacking, but I just don't see it. A S3 gobbo helps me on just a few plays, and not enough to justify the added TV over dauntless, leader, block, guard, etc.

I never build a gobbo for the future (i.e. hoping for +ST and another doubles). They die like dogs, so I build for the now.

[mattgslater]

ST3 Gobs are good blitzers and good carriers. Is it 2/3 better than Block? No, but frankly, that's not the standard. They don't need any other skills, though if you get one Side Step, that's nice.

[Greyhound]

Three. That's how many +AG guys you're almost certain to get great mileage out of. An ace, an outlet and a spare on offense, and on defense two mobile guys and a benchwarmer/O-specialist. Much more than that may be a waste. Except on Stunties and Slann. Then there's no limit.

So with 5 I'm Over the top already.
I hope I don't roll another 5+6 on skill up I'd hate to have to turn it down, it's not even a double !!!!

[mattgslater]

Partly it depends on who you are and what you're building. Humans with a lot of AG ups are like elves with S access, a big guy, and 50k linefodder. A Lizardman team can't turn down +AG on a Skink, no way no how. In fact, for pretty much any Stunty except a Snot, it's an automatic. An Undead team with five +AGs would be in great shape, if they came on three Ghouls and two Wights. There might be "too much" +AG possible on Amazons, but that would be a lot. Since Amazons have such a low peak cost and no real gamebreaker inducements, they don't pay a big price for TV inefficiency. But on other teams like Orcs or Elves, a little is a big advantage, and a little more is even better, but a lot is a distraction. These teams rely on their multicategory access to get really good at something, and +AG only occasionally fits into that. When it doesn't, it still may be worthwhile, but how much, really?

Situation may matter, too. If I have an Orc team and get 11s on two Blitzers, then I'll take the +AGs. If I then get an 11 on a third Blitzer, I might ignore it. If I then get 11 on a Goblin, I'd take +AG in a heartbeat. If I got +AG on a Thrower after that, I'd have four, and feel very much justified in doing it. Heck, if the other Thrower also got 11 (or if the one got it twice), I'd have five! But if I got a Thrower and two Blitzers, I'd just fire the Goblin.

[Warpstone]

I'd add that league composition matters as much as your roster and build. Five AG+ might sound like a lot until you've played through a minefield of chaos fixtures.

[JaM]

Nice thread, lots of info here. Good to see some inside on stuff like this...

Anyway: I just got another +1 STR on a saurus, and after last night's game I finally rolled his first normal skill: MB.

He's now STR 6 MB, I just hope he reaches enough SPP for block, guard, frenzy, tackle,... what have you.

Granted, it's on teh Cyanide game, and my other suarussii have block and MB (well, most of them) now. So I guess I can do with one "bloat".
It's for fun anyway.

I was really torn if I should have gotten him that other str upgrade though. There are better skills out there, and he definatly needed block.
But I decided to go for the fun of it. After all, how many times do you roll that double 6 anyway, for skills...

I'll see where he/it will take me though. Could be the making of a hell of a player !


So, who would turn down a +1 STR as a second skill IF the first skill was ALSO a +1 STR ?

[dines]

JaM> I have a fumbbl lizardman team with +STR on two different sauri, so I kinda know your dilemma. Its great against bashy teams, but the lack of skills can hurt against more agile opponents. Im not sure if I had chosen the second +ST especially on a slow skilling player without starting skills such as the sauri. The same goes for chaos warriors and black orcs. I would definately pick both +STR for players starting with block or elves.

[JaM]

I know, but... str 6 is kinda cool.
I'm not sure if I would apo it though, depending on it's development really. And the rest (have a sure hands skink now, and one with ag 4). Some players are more important than others, espescially vs the AI (who became quite better with the latest upgradre. Skills make more sense now too. No more sure hands/pass block BOBs for instance).

Anyway,most of the time you want the STR, but on Orcs you'd be daft to pass up +AG on a thrower IMHO.

[narg]

So, who would turn down a +1 STR as a second skill IF the first skill was ALSO a +1 STR ?

You can't really generalize. I was lucky enough to get a double +ST norse lineman and it would really have been stupid of me to take anything else; he already had block and there wasn't much else to give him.

On a big guy you should definitely take block as it might very well be your last double.

Regarding your saurus I'd say it depends on the rest of the team and on how long you plan to play them. If you have lots of guard and/or plan to play the team for another 50 or 100 games then sure the +ST is better as with AV9 he's got high chances of sticking around a very long time and then he's just bound to get block at some stage and in the meanwhile he can just get 3d with the guard assists. If you have no guard and plan to play the team just for another two or three games then take block.

On an AV7 player without block (a pro-elf or a skaven for example) I'd be very conflicted as sooner rather than later you really need blodge. I'd probably still take the +ST.

[Smurf]

I'd say the second ST is daft. Hello... Jump Up - boing, even with his bad agility it's a 50% chance of standing block or you can jump up and move anyway.

Or take dodge, followed by break tackle.

[mattgslater]

+2 ST depends a lot on position and utility. Elf Lineman? Not so much. Catcher? Now you're talking. Also, the value of doubles and the player's survivability and skillability, those matter. Block players do better with +ST. Players who are already built to play strong backfield positions or other unmarked points do the best with high +ST, I've found, unless you can spam gnarliness on your DL. Like on an Orc team, any BOB or Blitzer with ST5 can just give the opposition fits.