Kicking Rules tactics (dumping off to a Kicker and more)

Mad Makz · Post by **Mad Makz** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:14 am

Hey there, in the ACGBBL (http://www.solitudo.com/bloodbowl/ we are using the experimental kicking rules, and in my two matches so far they have proved vital (nearly costing me the first match, and winning me the second). (My team is Skaven, The Foul Peak Freaks)

As these are fairly new rules I was wondering whether any body here had been using them/developed any new tactics, or rethought their skill advancements?

One thing I am trying is giving my thrower dump off as his first skill.
As I mainly play a running game, I didn't really feel I needed accurate that much.
The basic plan is to use this in conjunction with my kicker for when the balls is loose in the opposition half and I am against a strong defensive team (lots of guys with tackle etc) that are likely to shut down my gutter runners.
Knock a whole in their line up with my Ratogre and stormvermin, and send my thrower after the ball with the kicker close by. The thrower grabs the ball, but instead of chucking the ball to a vulnerable gutter runner, he hangs on to it. The opposition will then move to cover the gutter runners, and go for a blitz against the thrower. The thrower dumps off back to the unmarked kicker (everyone going after thrower/gr), who will then be free to grab the field goal in my turn.

A bit of a convoluted play, just for 2 points (TD's are 3, FGs are 2 if you are using the kicking rules), but I figured dump off is also good on the defense if they are looking to sack the thrower, especially as having a Wild Animal on your team can make things a bit more unpredictable (thankfully the Ratogres got Block after his second game, so he is less of a liability). Also it's a good skill to have when your rat ogre is forced to either take your only blitz move or stay knocked down, because it will mean I can choose to use the rat ogre instead of leaving him down to let someone else make a defensive blitz, meaning he won't be as prone to rampant fouling.

Any thoughts on the above, or just tactics using the kicking rules in general?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 2:42 am

Very cool to see another league using the kicking rules.

I like your idea very much ... having the flexibility for the backup play is good tactics.

I have to be honest ... I oversaw 200 matches with the kicking rules and I can tell you defensive strategies out the kazoo .... see:
viewtopic.php?t=747&start=0

But offense ... hmmm ... not sure. It was very infrequently used in my league as it was a risky gamble so I don't really have an offensive ideas.

The Dump Off is a good idea and when I was playing I also tried to get one player to penetrate into the backfield enough to either be in scoring position or to get to the middle sweet spots if they were unguarded.

As for skills .... the other one to think about is the Hail Mary Pass/Diving Catch combo which is not so great for Skaven ... much better for Lizardmen. Both GRs and Skinks can get the HMP and easily either score or get into position for the kick.

I'll have to give it some more attention. By the way .. if your league likes the rules ... PLEASE make sure to let the BBRC know in early September when they start really getting ready to decide what will be official and what not. I'd like to see the kicking rules ... they were very balanced and fun.

Galak

Post by **Thadrin** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:21 am

I used the rules for the first time on monday night. My orcs were playing against a human team. The old "Up and Under play" very nearly worked!

Didn't get a chance to try a Field goal though. In the team's first game (against Norse) my opponent tried to get one, but I found the defensive strategy of "Put a tackle zone on pretty much every square" worked quite nicely.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 12:10 pm

If you defend for a field goal ... our experience was that its just very difficult to get one.

Galak

Mad Makz · Post by **Mad Makz** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 12:47 pm

Yeah, it is reasonably hard to get a field goal, but Gutter Runners are da bomb at it.

Seeing as they can get so far down field in one turn, and have a high agility, it is reasonably difficult to totally shut them down (while, again, because of their low strength preventing them getting that lone touch down with a deep defense and blitz is quite easy).

Certainly I imagine they are easier to defend against than use offensively, because frankly most of the defensive tactics are similiar to those to prevent an ordinary touchdown.

However, it's the ability to score in that final turn that makes them so good. When behind a Touchdown the game changes 2 TD's required to win (which will almost always takes 4 at least turns to achieve, without getting lucky on the kick off tables/poor tactics playing a major part by your opponents), to only 2 Field Goals, both of which can be achieved in a single team turn.

We'll be definitely sending in our findings of this season to the BBRC, our finals are mid August so we'll be in a good position to take comments and wind up the season before the rules review takes place, then digest the changes and prepare for another season.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:27 pm

As you'll see in my other thread though, even GRs have a very low chance of that 1 turn boot if your opponent know how to set up his defense. Our experience was that early on Wood Elf and Skaven have good luck with field goals ... then everyone starts to understand the sweet spots and one turn scores don't happen anymore.

Galak

Mad Makz · Post by **Mad Makz** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 4:15 am

Yeah, but I am not trying for the kick in the first turn. That's suicide. ; )

I'd rather use my Ratogre early, kick the living heck out of the opposing team if I can, while not focussing on the ever risky quick touchdown after quick touch down, while keeping the ball away from the opponent. Then, when the game is all tied up 3 or 6 a piece, sneak in for a kick in the dieing seconds.

It's not so much a plan, as a back up plan that for once allows Skaven to focus on beating up the opponent early in the game, rather than scoring, waiting for the opponent to mess up or score a TD themselves, and then try and score a TD again.

Plus I scored with a GR in the final seconds of my last game, winning me the game, so you can understand me being hyped about the possibilities. (Especially as this is only an 8 player league, with 2 out of the 7 round robin matches out of the way, meaning teams won't get that much time to adjust to the kicking game nor upskill for it.)

But ultimately, the rules are TOO cool not to be used.

They certainly (as demonstrated in our matches so far, and by your examples) aren't unbalanced or overpowering. But they add such a level of excitement to the final turn that I want to ALWAYS have a back up plan that'll let me get in for the goal, nothing like keeping your opponents on their toes.

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:56 pm

This doesnt really have anything to do with kicking,but is still pretty neat.
Try dumping off to a catcher in your opponents end zone,

A TD and it aint even your turn

christer · Post by **christer** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:59 pm

Try dumping off to a catcher in your opponents end zone

If that was the situation, I would be tempted to swarm the ball carrier and blitz the catcher out into the crowd..

-- Christer

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:03 pm

christer wrote:
Try dumping off to a catcher in your opponents end zone
If that was the situation, I would be tempted to swarm the ball carrier and blitz the catcher out into the crowd..
-- Christer

If only the people I played thought that way

But can you dump off to an opposing player, who has no chance of catching it and force a turnover?

christer · Post by **christer** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:06 pm

But can you dump off to an opposing player, who has no chance of catching it and force a turnover?

Well, you can dumpoff to a player on the opposing team, but I'm pretty sure a failed catch wouldn't cause a turnover. I would consider it a free attempt to catch the ball, much like when you get the chance to catch a scattering ball.

-- Christer

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 12:32 pm

The Dump Off would be a free catch roll so no turnover if failed.

Galak

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 3:54 pm

Just on the kicking rules, we have used them all season and found that although interesting, they made very little difference to tactics and that very few field goals were scored. People still seemed to go for the TD. DD.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:23 pm

Which means they worked IMO. The difference they make is that it eliminates the dead turns on turn 8 that used to be nothing to do but bash.

If your league scored them left and right I'd be concerned. Over 200 matches, my league's average was 1 goal scored by either team 3 out of 10 games. It adds to the options without taking away from the game.

Galak

Pedait · Post by **Pedait** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 10:13 pm

Can somebody tell me where I can download these rules. They sound pretty interesting to use. Thanks