How much guard in chaos initially?

Tinkywinky · Post by **Tinkywinky** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:38 pm

I'm playing a chaos team at fumbbl in the Swedish (closed) league. I'm more used to playing hybrid teams then bashy teams but I consider myself a pretty good coach at that too. I have never however played a bashy team in a longer league and now I want your opinions on my planned skill development.

The big guy should obsiously get block and guard in that order (pro if double).

I go with block as first skill for all players.

The chaos warriors will get guard as the second skill as they are the hardest to take down for the opponent. Doubles will probably be claw.

The beastmen are my big questionmark. I'm thinking that I will give a lot of them mighty blow as second skill as the cw:s will provide assistance. Two will of course get tackle and doubles will get them foul appearence. I'm waiting with the sure hands until leaping strip ballers start appearing so that I get a good SPP-distribution.

The big question is: How many beastmen should get Guard/MB as their second skill?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:23 pm

i'm not a big fan of MB everywhere... on doubles, i don't like claws on CW but rather Tentacles (maybe one with claws/RZF but no more), and on beastmen, you'll need foul ap, but also one big hand, maybe one prehensile tail (with tackle/shadowing, can be fun)...

claws isn't that great, because you can take MB as a normal comp, which is almost as good as claws.

also, for the BG, my advice goes to the mino

JJB · Post by **JJB** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:09 pm

Again, your choice of skills always depends on not just your style (I assume you play plain "bashy" here.) but also your opponents'.
I'll assume the Swedish closed league is reasonably big with a wide variety of teams.
In that case, I'd give guard to all you CW after block. For doubles, I'd hesitate between tentacles (great for an st4 player) or stand firm.

However, for the beastmen, I'd only give guard to two-three of them.
I'd then give tackle to two players.
The first double rolled by a beastman should be big hand in my opinion. His next skill would then be sure hands - that would make sure you'd quickly get hold of the ball when you receive.
For other doubles: two foul appearance players (more would be a waste I believe), and two claws (or razor sharp fangs, although statistically speaking, claws will be used more often by your players since rsf only works if the first (av) roll goes through, while claws ALWAYS work since it applies to that first (av) roll...).
If you want to be a bit less purely bashy, but also want to win matches earlier on, I'd suggest getting two tackling beastmen as their first skill. Then their second one would be block. If they get a double, you can always give them tentacles, diving tackle or even claw (to make sure that wardancer will not get up again...

).

That's based on my experience - a chaos team will be more effective if you don't give a standard set of skills to too many players, since beastmen have no flaw as such and can therefore become any kind of player you want them to be thanks to a good distribution of skills... so why giving them all the same set of skills as if they were longbeards?...
Chaos warriors could be managed in the same way, although since they will run around less, you can develop them all with the same basic skills, that is block and guard, and only use imagination when they get doubles...
...and personally, while a +ag beastman is always nice, I'd ignore +1ag (or +1ma) rolls for chaos warriors - that's not worth a normal/strength skill (I've tried!!).

Tinkywinky · Post by **Tinkywinky** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:30 pm

Ah tentacles for chaos warriors sounds like a good idea. But doesn't "the more the merrier" go for FA? If you have a bunch of FA it is impossable for the opponent to get the ball up when it's up for grabs?

I'd like more opinions on how many FA players one should have.

Frenzy seems like a good choice for a tackler too?

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:57 pm

A chaos team would like about 3 claws, and as many FA's as possible.

One frenzy is really all you need to keep an opponent honest on the sideline. With the new WA roles, a Minotaur is actually a great player for Chaos.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:36 am

Fumbbl is a funny beast - and taking too many injury causing skills will make it harder to get games. So it encourages you to take skills other than Claw/RSF on doubles.

I think you are making one big mistake - you are thinking as if you have a full 16 already. You don't and your team development plan has to reflect that.

Sure 4 CWs and a BG with Block/Guard mean you don't need as much guard for beastmen, but how long will it take to get there? Remember you'll need to buy rerolls and replacement players too. If you are starting with 10 Beastmen + 1 other then its going to take a while to get all the positional players.

Also what about tackle? strip ball? kick? dirty player? These are all crucial skills for beastmen to pick up - otherwise you'll be too one dimensional in your approach.

Fundamentally I don't particularly like MB as a 2nd skill - Block 1st on all the beasties is a good idea. After that one or two strip ball, one kick, one dirty player (he doesn't need block). Then split the rest between guard and tackle. Once the CWs have skilled up you can focus on giving the later beastmen tackle instead.

The first Beastman to get a doubles ought to take Big Hand - then he gets Block/Sure Hands on top and is the primary ball carrier.

MB would work well on the Block/Tackle beastmen, but I wouldn't take it anywhere else.

For the CWs Block then Guard is a good development. I'm not sure whether I'd give the BG pro on a doubles. Minos need tentacles and stand firm. Otherwise Pro is okay, if a somewhat bland choice. I think I'd take SF on them instead.

Really the flavour of the development is what you do with doubles. Claw/RSF is going to be a brutal murder team. Foul Appearance (backed up by Pass Block) is going to really hurt passing teams. Then there are more conventional options - Dauntless on a beastmen. Stand Firm is always good, as is dodge. Then you have the option of developing a passing game with Accurate and Pass. When everyone's got AG3 its a pretty handy weapon in the arsenal.

My current team http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... m_id=59227 is trying to develop a mixed bash/pass style and its working pretty well so far.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:17 pm

Ian, one real advantage of playing Chaos is the 4 ST ballcarrier Chaos Warriors. By making a primary ballcarrier out of a beastman, aren't you limiting them somewhat? My chaos team has been using the CW with the fewest SPP's as the primary ballcarrier in a given game.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:25 pm

Using CWs to score is a good way to get them SPPs - but I find MA5 a bit too low - making it easier to stop the cage moving.

Normally I'll try to run a couple of CWs forward (in support of the beastmen

) and then hand off to them for the score itself.

TBH I've not really got that much experience of high TR Chaos teams - so none of them have all 4 CWs (2 & 3 IIRC). Often I find the S4 required to tie up opponents (especially when they are high Strength too), freeing up the Beasties to blitz and run the ball.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:40 pm

i only wanted to react upon:
"...and personally, while a +ag beastman is always nice, I'd ignore +1ag (or +1ma) rolls for chaos warriors - that's not worth a normal/strength skill (I've tried!!)."
i don't agree: i think +ma is a great thing to take on CW (not on doubles of course), and on beastmen (score in 2 turns anyone ?). the same goes for +1 agi, it's always good to have someone that can dodge or get the ball even if covered by one TZ.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:29 pm

Wow, I missed that. Yes, it's always good to take agility on a CW. If nothing else, they become a very reliable handoff down the field, or a good person to handle the ball when out of rerolls.

harald · Post by **harald** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:46 am

AG4 is always good regardless. An AG4 ST4 AV9 player is a treat for any team.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:52 am

+AG I'd never turn down on a Chaos team.

+MA I'd only turn down on doubles. But if you are playing a short league then maybe just take the normal skill.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:56 am

well, on a 5+5, gotta get VLL instead i believe ^^

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:28 pm

there is so much to give a warrior I would go for guard about skill 4. This will be about game 50 for many warriors!

So many options just get a few guard block beastmen. Only plan for about 3-4 guard total as you will have enough strength to nail most teams. If you are a total block player try dauntless on a beastman and give him block and MB. This should satisfy many options without any guard. Best advice diversity becasue the chaos team are a bit predictable.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:45 pm

I'd give all the CWs Block & Guard, unless they get stat or doubles in which case I'll judge it by the team balance.