Dauntless on agilityteams.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:31 am

Can someone explain to me why everyone allways offers and chooses Dauntless for a double on Elf-like teams? (lets take WE as example)

In my experience, the only time you want to hit a ST+ guy instead of dodging away from him is when he carries the ball.

And the only team that could have reliable ST+ ballcarriers is Chaos.

The way i would play WE is to score as fast as possible, then on his drive try to stay alive and if you go for the win, blitz his ballcarrier (in a cage or not) pick up the ball and score right that turn if possible.

Most people that have ST+ players don't develop those as ballcarriers, why would you want to develop a medicin against that then, if you can choose skills that are more usefull overall.

W

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:07 am

People always offer Dauntless because it's a really good skill on any team where the highest Strenght is 3.

It's good to know that if you need to hit a Str 4+ guy, you can at least do it without having to pull in 2 assists. You do need to hit those guys lots of times, if you want a shot at getting the ball. (think of an Blodge/Surehands Beastman inside a cage of Guarding Chaos Warriors)

I'd like to see a game of Lizardmen against WE with your strategy.

Aksho · Post by **Aksho** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:10 am

Well I can not totally agree. Ok there are a lot of really high strength. Players who are slow and not really good at taking the ball, but what if they have it? Maybe a bad kick or just luck, and to stop them you will need a lot of good dice-rolling and/or Dauntless to have a chance. Ever tryed to stop a Kroxi, Oger etc. carring the ball with Elves, oh man thats not funny trust me.

If the game would always be as easy as described in your example WE would be undefeatable, but thats the funny thing about BB, when you think something is going to bring you a victory, everything wents wrong

mfg Bernd

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:33 am

Its also good when u can block away a Saurus that doesnt have block and u do so your wardancer can leaping blitz the skink with the ball.

neverdodge · Post by **neverdodge** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:08 am

Because when you play agility versus strenght team, the strenght team advantage often come from his player strenghts. Having 1 or 2 dauntless in an agility reduce that advantage.

Btw you got to hit and make block to win, even with woodies.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:14 am

Orin wrote:People always offer Dauntless because it's a really good skill on any team where the highest Strenght is 3

It's good to know that if you need to hit a Str 4+ guy, you can at least do it without having to pull in 2 assists. You do need to hit those guys lots of times, if you want a shot at getting the ball. (think of an Blodge/Surehands Beastman inside a cage of Guarding Chaos Warriors)
.:

In this case dauntless won't help you a whole lot i think, you would have to next to the cage at some point, and thus very much hittable.

Orin wrote: I'd like to see a game of Lizardmen against WE with your strategy.

So would i, you should be able to get to the ballcarrier at some point, by leaping and dodging. And probably that ballcarrier has only ST2.

Aksho wrote:Well I can not totally agree. Ok there are a lot of really high strength. Players who are slow and not really good at taking the ball, but what if they have it? Maybe a bad kick or just luck, and to stop them you will need a lot of good dice-rolling and/or Dauntless to have a chance. Ever tryed to stop a Kroxi, Oger etc. carring the ball with Elves, oh man thats not funny trust me.

If the game would always be as easy as described in your example WE would be undefeatable, but thats the funny thing about BB, when you think something is going to bring you a victory, everything wents wrong

mfg Bernd

So what you are saying is that you should take Dauntless because perhaps your opponent had ythe ball fall into his Bigguy and he rolled a 6.

Yeah situations like that happen and i hate it when they do. but they don't occur very often. I think you are better of taking a skill that you can use every game multiple times.
The way i usually handle these games is by just giving away that TD and stay out fo reach until the scored. Next drive they won't have their bigguy get the ball. (they would be stupid to try, because if they fail the pickup your team is best at handling that)

sean newboy wrote:Its also good when u can block away a Saurus that doesnt have block and u do so your wardancer can leaping blitz the skink with the ball.

So you were already standing next to that Saurus during his turn? I wouldn't like that tactic i think, i want my elves alive.

W

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:38 am

If you are only planning to hit players that have the ball then I think something is wrong with your strategy. A big guy with prehensive tail or tentacles is a real pain if you play elves. Sometimes a high str player is positioned in such a way that, even tough he doesn't have the ball, you can pretty reliably blitz him out of the way with dauntless or be forced to do a lot of 2+ and 3+ rolls. And if your opponent knows you can take down his high str players he'll probably adjust his tactics.
1 or 2 dauntless players just add a lot of flexibilty and redundancy to your team.

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:41 am

At some point you are gonna need to move a chaos warrior, or a black orc, or a saurus for some reason... like opening up a gap to run potential catchers through, or to get to the opposing thrower with the ball, etc. At that point having Dauntless is really useful.

Martyn

Aksho · Post by **Aksho** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:14 pm

Well: you can run, but you can not hide

Just always Dodge away will not bring the success even for WE. I have seen 2 many WE games where the first Dodgeroll was a 1. What then? What if it comes hard to hard. What if you have to Block your way through? to have an easier dodgemove?
Dauntless is against other ST 3 Teams not very helpfull, but ever played against Khemri or Lizardman??? What you want to do against Mummies and Saurus/Kroxi? Just always Dodge away and maybe one time a great event from your Wardancer

Dont forget: At the Kickoff or when you made a TD you have 3 WE on the Line, bye bye little elves with Armor 7

and a 4 one is kicked as with a Blitz. So what then? 4 Men on the ground normally 1-2 KO or injured. You will need someone making Blocks and always against 2 dices is not really a good idea, and you will need allready all your Rerolls for your Dodge-tactic. Well but maybe all others are wrong

Just one more thing: 2 Often the ball is not given to big guys ore 4+ ST players in the game but at the kick off when there was a bad kick.
mfg Bernd

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:26 pm

Aksho wrote:Well: you can run, but you can not hide
Just always Dodge away will not bring the success even for WE. I have seen 2 many WE games where the first Dodgeroll was a 1. What then? What if it comes hard to hard. What if you have to Block your way through? to have an easier dodgemove?
Dauntless is against other ST 3 Teams not very helpfull, but ever played against Khemri or Lizardman??? What you want to do against Mummies and Saurus/Kroxi? Just always Dodge away and maybe one time a great event from your Wardancer Dont forget: At the Kickoff or when you made a TD you have 3 WE on the Line, bye bye little elves with Armor 7 and a 4 one is kicked as with a Blitz. So what then? 4 Men on the ground normally 1-2 KO or injured. You will need someone making Blocks and always against 2 dices is not really a good idea, and you will need allready all your Rerolls for your Dodge-tactic. Well but maybe all others are wrong

Just one more thing: 2 Often the ball is not given to big guys ore 4+ ST players in the game but at the kick off when there was a bad kick.
mfg Bernd

Well, since so many thought it good, i thought i'ld ask why.
I am still not convinced though, i think doubles on lineman are better used for guard, (or leader in early development), on wardancers i don't know...MightyBlow seems most usefull (but stripball and tackle are must-haves), perhaps Pro if you are leaping a whole lot.
on catchers dauntless might be good, if you already have catchers that are receivers...

For Darkelves well, you could play the stay-put game with them, i guess Dauntless is usefull in that case...but only if you have enough guard already.

Don't get me wrong, i am not saying that dauntless is useless, i am just saying that often other skills will give you more and better use.

W

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:24 pm

Cooper wrote: In this case dauntless won't help you a whole lot i think, you would have to next to the cage at some point, and thus very much hittable.

Just relying on Leap seems like a very meagre tactic. With Dauntless you can try to attack the sides of the cage and try to rip it apart.
Place players at the back of the cage, sure they'll get hit, but the hitters won't be able to keep cage formation and the cage will tear itself apart, or it won;t move much at least. Sidestep, Dodge, and Block can do a lot for your players in this situation.

Cooper wrote: I think you are better of taking a skill that you can use every game multiple times.

Certainly, Skills like Sure Feet or Dodge are great skills, but the impact of a player with Dauntless on the game is a lot bigger. It's good to know that you at least are capable of taking on those high Str players. it makes the opponent nervous as well, and so you're controlling the game instead of him.

And anyway, most skills have a limit to their use: Strip Ball, Tackle, and Dauntless spring to mind. But there are a lot of situations where you can use them with devastating effect.

Cooper wrote: The way i usually handle these games is by just giving away that TD and stay out fo reach until they scored. Next drive they won't have their bigguy get the ball. (they would be stupid to try, because if they fail the pickup your team is best at handling that)

If you really want to keep all your elves safe, you'll probably lose a lot of games with 2-1.

If you roll doubles for a WD, and you already have a lino or 2 with guard, Dauntless is just a very nice extra

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:25 pm

I agree about Guard. My first few line-elves to get a double get Guard. But my first dark elf blitzer to get a double gets Dauntless, and my first line-elf who already has Block to get a double gets Dauntless.

Martyn

Post by **Dave** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:48 pm

agree with martynq .. I'd take a leader as well ..

dauntless is for blitzes type players, catchers are very well suited to the dauntless role ..

doubles on WD's also depend on their role, usually MB, maybe Dauntless

JU is also cool, but dangerous on catchers / WD's 'cuz of the fouling threat

Kamikaze Rudy · Post by **Kamikaze Rudy** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:51 pm

Why not Dauntless??

Say, for example that a Woodie team has a couple of bashing teams on it's schedule. You don't think it's in their best interest to have a player than can knock down the Minotaur with claw? or any other big guy with Mighty Blow that can devastate 7AV real fast? Why committ 4 elves to get a two die block, when you can use two and foul with a 3rd one?

Nick-O · Post by **Nick-O** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:31 am

Ah... Cooper, I know what the problem is! You either got bad Dauntless advice(imho) or misinterpreted it. Linemen shouldn't get Dauntless - Linemen should get Guard.

Dauntless is for you MV-9, STR-2 Catcher who already has Block and Strip Ball! One player can zip across the field and put the ball on the turf 5 times out of 6. Dauntless makes a lot more sense on a STR2 speed player, eh?

Most of the 'good' dauntless advice that you see out there is to designate one or two catchers as defensive players and build them into ball-blitzers - not to put dauntless on a STR3 lineman.