Dwarf runner with double on first skill roll

MieserMax · Post by **MieserMax** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:49 am

Hello,

another problem wit h skill advancement (Thanks for your help with my WE thrower).

My dwarfen runner rolled a double. Now i cant decide what skill to take.

My other runner already has block.

So should i take:

- Pro: "built in" reroll
- Dodge: on the way to blodge
- Leap: hard to defend (i you have a reroll available)
- Side Step: sideline open for running

Thanks in advance.

MieserMax.

JJB · Post by **JJB** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:17 am

There are two ways to deal with that:
- you want to put some passing game for your dwarves.
- you don't.

If you choose the first option, then I'd definitely go for strong arm, giving that same player pass and accurate later on. That will be assuming that your second runner, or blitzers, will be your catchers. Of course don't count on a full passing game - more like the life-saving pass to make you save one or two turns towards the ends of match, when you have slaughtered the opposition but are still behind in terms of TDs.

The second option is that most chosen by BB coaches playing dwarves. In that case, I'd most recommend dodge. With blodge and sure hands, your runner can just pick up the ball and see his mobility greatly increased. Most of all, he will be far harder to bring down with blodge.
That all depends on your game. I have next to no experience with dwarves - I've played chaos dwarves a lot though - so I'm not a reference on the matter. Personally, I'd choose strong arm.
Yet again it also depends on the duration of your league. If it's no more than 10-12 matches, you may as well build on what you've already given your player and choose the dodge option, since he already has block. Had you given him pass, then I would then have considered strong arm personally.

What I don't advise is leap - far too unreliable on a 4+, but also because:
1- if he leaps away to score, there is nobody fast enough in your team to follow and protect him.
2- if he leaps to try and break a cage, again, there is nobody to pick up the ball and run away afterwards in your team.

Neither side step, because without dodge, your player will probably still be down after a 2db. Side step is really useful for blodge players, or when you have more than one of them, because out of 2-3 blocks, a player should expect to, at least, just push back one or two players out of the 2-3. So then the blocking player will find himself inconvenienced - hence two pro elven blitzers with side step, even before they've gained the dodge skill, becomes interesting.

Pro? The main roll he'll ever need to do is pick up the ball, for which he already has a reroll. And with dodge, then he'll have another reroll for the second most likely roll he'll make: dodges!
- and with the block skill, the likelihood of him failing a block, i.e. rolling a double skull (1/36 chances) is just to low to waste a double on pro in my opinion.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:31 am

I always take dodge on dwarf runner double and I have never regretted it since it is so handy so many times. A blodge/sure hands ball carrier is a very, very good player in a dwarf team.

Vero · Post by **Vero** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:46 am

Consider also Nerves Of Steel + Dump Off (+pass, accurate) combo.

JJB · Post by **JJB** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:04 pm

That makes a lot of skills for his runner before he becomes effective. And that involves going for some kind of passing game requiring reliable catchers. I think it's too much to ask for a dwarf team.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:00 pm

my pick is sidestep, which i believe, unlike what JJB has said, to be useful even without dodge. i don't like dodge, i don't like a skill that can be completely negated and thus wasted if your opponent has a tackler. on the other hand, if you get sidestep and that your opponent has tackle, then you just wasted HIS skill. anyway, with sure hands and block, and sidestep, your runner will be secure enough in those cages, that the pesky stripball WarDancer won't threaten you with 2db your choice blocks.

Zyad · Post by **Zyad** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:12 pm

I always take dodge on dwarven runners... It makes them so much more effective.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:47 pm

Dodge or Pro.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:53 pm

Dodge, side Step or Strong Arm. Not Pro, wait 3 weeks until the RR2004 is finished and take Pro as a skill afterwards

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:59 pm

take dodge. So what if some times it is negated by an opposint tackler? Not every opposing player has tackle..if you play it right, you can severly limit the chances that a tackler will be able to get to your runner anyway.

As a general rule, teams have at most 2 tacklers (Yes, I know some coaches are tackle crazy, but in general, most teams below 200TR have only one or two tacklers on the team).

The only other skill I'd consider for the 1st double on a runner is Strong Arm...but I'd only take that if he already was developing as a passer (had pass and possibly accurate).

Side Step is great if you are lucky enough to get a 2nd double.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:09 pm

Gus wrote:my pick is sidestep, which i believe, unlike what JJB has said, to be useful even without dodge. i don't like dodge, i don't like a skill that can be completely negated and thus wasted if your opponent has a tackler. on the other hand, if you get sidestep and that your opponent has tackle, then you just wasted HIS skill.

Like GorTex said, even then dodge is usefull as you're effectively forcing your opponent to blitz your ball carrier with a tackler, it reduces his options and that's always a good thing.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:48 pm

it's always a good thing to get a skill effect negated ? seriously, how many times do you need to dodge with a runner ? dodge is WASTED when you have only one in a team, cause then the opponent can easily make sure his tacklers are there.

Zyad · Post by **Zyad** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:07 pm

thats why you hit his tacklers, so they cannot be there... this is dwarves we're talking about... once his tacklers are down, he is forced to hit with a non-tackler, so he needs a double "pow" to knock you down, since its probably a 2db your choice anyway.

The only teams the will most likely have more than two tacklers are dwarves/chaos dwarves, since they start with so much of it anyway... Other teams will have a hard time hitting your blodger, once you deal with the tacklers.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:18 pm

Gus wrote:it's always a good thing to get a skill effect negated ?

no

seriously, how many times do you need to dodge with a runner ?

Once every two games maybe, but whenever it happens it's usually a game winning or losing move, so that dodge skill will come in handy. Dodge adds mobility to your most mobile player in a very immobile team.

dodge is WASTED when you have only one in a team, cause then the opponent can easily make sure his tacklers are there.

And you can make sure those tacklers go down/are tied up. As GorTex said, most teams only have a few tacklers. It is easier to control 2 tackle players trying to get a blitz at your runner then just about every player on the other team.
Just my opinion of course.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:36 pm

Zyad wrote:thats why you hit his tacklers, so they cannot be there... this is dwarves we're talking about... once his tacklers are down, he is forced to hit with a non-tackler, so he needs a double "pow" to knock you down, since its probably a 2db your choice anyway.

The only teams the will most likely have more than two tacklers are dwarves/chaos dwarves, since they start with so much of it anyway... Other teams will have a hard time hitting your blodger, once you deal with the tacklers.

ok so we went from "it's good to have your enemy focusing two players on your dodger since it reduces its options" to "you have to make all of your team work towards getting the tacklers down". makes much sense indeed