Shadowing on Skaven?

[el sid]

My Skaven team has two players with a MA increase: A Storm Vermin (MA8) and a Gutter Runner (MA10). The Storm Vermin also has Tackle, the Gutter Runner Block.

I'm being tempted for their next skill increases to give them Shadowing. But in our league, no-one has ever used it! So I'm not sure what to expect from it?

I could mark opposing ball carriers with them, I suppose? But is the skill of any use, if the opponent can just blitz you? A push is enough! So Shadowing should probably only come with Sidestep?

I don't want to give my positionals skills they'll rarely use. So it comes down to these questions:

- Is it useful to give on of my mentioned players Shadowing?
- If yes, how could I maximize its use?

El Sid

[Duke Jan]

- Is it useful to give on of my mentioned players Shadowing?

Yes, shadowing is especially effective on MA7+ block/tackle players.

- If yes, how could I maximize its use?

El Sid

Now here's the difficult part. It depends on your opponent. The tackle/shadowing combo is lethal against the strategy of your opponent putting two catchers on your half, you can only blitz one, the other you guard with your tackle/shadowing player. The question you ave to ask yourself is whether you want to use your storm vermin to defend deep inside your own half. On a GR shadowing may also be useful, but I would consider diving tackle as an option too.

A GR with shadowing can be used if your opponent fails to pick up the ball when he's receiving (especially in combo with kick on a lino). Move your GR through his lines to put a TZ on someone who might pick-up the ball, but remember that your GR is vulnerable and it's probably also a good idea to put him either next to the ball or let him try to pick it up.

Also remember that using shadowing close to the side-lines might not be a very good idea.

[Fronko]

Shadowing is a good choice, especially, if your league is not used to deal with it. On the GR I´d probably take it, followed by sidestep. He can hardly be shaken, even another gr oder we catcher will have a hard time. And with sidestep he cannot be blitzed away easily.

The vermin is a bit less useful, for two reasons: Less MA, so it is easier for the opponent to get away. And (as far as I know) vermins can choose sidestep only on a double - so this option is probably not possible. But if you like, you can still take it - after all, if you "tag" your vermin to a possible receiver, he MUST use his blitz on that vermin, while could have used it somewhere else otherwise.

So, I would probably choose it on both players (I have something similar in mind with my woodies)

[Marcus]

Nice in combination with Foul Appearance as well.

[kithor2002]

Normally i woulgn't give a GR shadowing.
Turn your MA10 GR into a oneturner with sprint followed by sure feet.

Shadowing is a good skill for a rat ogre I think.Combined with tackle and his prehensile tail he will a real threat for ag players.

[Brokje]

A pity tackle is a general skill, and on doubles I guess Block or a mutation will be more valuable.

[kithor2002]

Yes that's true.

After the RR2004 you won't see much of these Ratogre developments.

[The Florist]

Sidestep shadoing gutter runners are great for disturbing the opponent's pickup. Mine has won me a few games.

[DoubleSkulls]

They do work well without sidestep too - because they control where your opponent blitzes if you are marking the ball carrier.

Also they can be handy at disuading agile teams from running past.

I really like getting a couple of GRs with Block, Sidestep, Shadowing & Diving Tackle. They really mess up your opponent's game - and you generally only need one turn over to win with skavs too.

[JJB]

I'd do:
SV: shadowing.
GR: side step or sprint.

As next skills:
SV: guard, stand firm on a double.
GR: sure feet or leap, jump up or spikes on a double.

Why I wouldn't give shadowing to the GR? With st2, he's just too prone to get hit, even more so with 10ma - keep that guy safe. On top of that, I think the fear factor of a one-turn scorer is much bigger than a shadowing GR.

[el sid]

On top of that, I think the fear factor of a one-turn scorer is much bigger than a shadowing GR.

It's just a personal opinion, but I don't like one-turners too much. There's no real challenge in throwing some Dodge and going-for-it rolls to get that extra TD. It doesn't make me feel good, so I prefer to develop my GR's in a different manner. But again, only my personal opinion. The rules allow to develop one-turners, so no discussion possible.

I think I'll give my Gutter Runner Sidestep first. This will protect him better from chain blocks, and will allow him to stalk the sidelines. After that skill, he will have developped nicely (MA10, Blodge, Sidestep), so I can start experimenting with Shadowing. But I guess I won't use it blindly. This means: Only against other ST2 catchers or in combination with a guarding Storm Vermin against ST3 caatchers. Just to minimize the danger of having a two-dice block against.

I'm still in a dilemma about the Storm Vermin. I guess having Shadowing on it without having Stand Firm is not very useful. So I'm just going to offer a Rat Ogre to Nuffle, and hope for a double on its next skill advancement. In that case, Claw would be nice too on a MA8, Tackle Storm Vermin. A pity Skaven can only take 2 blitzers. This makes it hard to allow for diversification.

Thanks for the input,

El Sid