Why does Chaos suck so bad?

kukuklox · Post by **kukuklox** » Fri Aug 02, 2002 8:17 pm

I'm beginning to think they suck! No skills, High RR costs and linemen (beatsmen) are 60k because they have horns which can only be used once per turn. Orc teams are FAR superior at the bashing game then Chaos! Please someone tell me why I am wrong!

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Fri Aug 02, 2002 8:41 pm

Chaos can be very nasty, but they take time to develop!

Sure you can only use Horns once per turn, but almost every player on your team has them which means usually a 2 die Blitz is always in reach.

Hang in there, the mortals will be trembling at your feet soon enough

Pink Horror · Post by **Pink Horror** » Fri Aug 02, 2002 8:51 pm

Okay, I'll take a shot at this. I've played plenty of games with both teams.

First, let me tell you I'm a mathematical person. I like coming up with formulas and systems for things I have interest in. For Blood Bowl, I have both a college-style computer team ranker and a team balance measurer I recently put together. The team ranker can be left alone, but the balance rater is a good tool for answering your question about Chaos and Orcs.

The balance rater gives several numbers with which you can try to measure team balance. It's very complicated, and very subjective to the whims of the programmer, but it does its job better than any other automated system I've seen. These numbers are "Blocking", "Throwing", "Running" (which includes receiving), "Potential" (the degree to which the team can improve), "Price" (a version of Galak's old team discount system), "Power" (the combination of Blocking, Throwing, Running, and Potential), and "Value" (which is a combination of Power, the total cost of the team, and Price). They're on a scale which would make a team full of human linemen with 55k re-rolls earn a 50 in each category.

Now that the background is out of the way, I can reveal the numbers.

Code: Select all

       Block  Throw  Run   Poten.  Price  Power  Value
Chaos  85.2   50.2   51.7  87.0    45.9   76.2   47.8
Orc    86.1   55.7   51.4  74.8    51.1   75.9   54.0

So, Orcs are a slightly better bashing team and a better throwing team. Chaos actually has better running ability overall (agility 3 and decent movement is potent) and the combination of general, strength, and mutations on everyone gives them a great deal of potential. They are a bit overpriced per player (which is Price) and as a team (which is Value) but the Deathzone teams are supposed to be a little harder to coach.

It might seem like Orc teams are far superior at bashing, but Chaos catches up when they get some skills. Also, Chaos never has any wimpy goblins, non-ball-handlers, or general-skills-only players on the field. That shouldn't be underestimated.

Pink Horror

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Aug 02, 2002 9:46 pm

Great post PH ... thanks.

Galak

Black Gobo · Post by **Black Gobo** » Fri Aug 02, 2002 11:39 pm

Oi! I'll av you kukuklox

Chaos are better at the bashing game than Orc's because thats all there really good at to start with, so thats what they focus on to start
A steady stream of SPP's from CAS come in along with a few COMP, no matter the players position. Of course, the more SPP's you get, the more chance you have of getting a doubles player, and then the Real force of chaos comes in.
Put simply, how many players have an 18.23% chance (roughly) of causing an CAS? A Chaos Warrior with Block, Claw, and Razor Sharp Fangs certainly has (Asuming AV8, ST3. So what most teams have really)
If you have 4 Chaos Warriors, that shouldnt be to hard to get. And they are usually the ones who get points for CAS, so they shouldnt have that much of a problem working up the SPP.
A "Normal" player has about 1.54% chance of causing a CAS, and they cant even think about getting Claw or Razor Sharp Fangs (Which roughly double the chance of getting through armour or causing a CAS respectivly)
And then there is the fact that they Look sooooooo Sexxy compared to Orc's. I know that I have had more than a few dreams about that sexxy black armour, cover with blood, spikes, and... errr... Ill just be quiet now
Anyway, if you havnt been convinced by me or anyone else yet, its not going to happen. Dont worry, the worst that could happen is the Chaos Gods twisting and distorting your soul for all eternity. Its not so bad

pau · Post by **pau** » Fri Aug 02, 2002 11:49 pm

Pink Horror:
I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more of your numbers or even the formulas you use to get them.
Do you have a website with your rankings, maybe?

kukuklox · Post by **kukuklox** » Sat Aug 03, 2002 2:14 am

Ok if your veterans and tell me to hang in there, then I will. I appreciate everyones input especially Pink's. That math probability thing was neat.

Pink Horror · Post by **Pink Horror** » Sat Aug 03, 2002 3:53 am

Galak told me he'd put my latest spreadsheet online. It's a little complex, but I think it can be figured out.

Pink Horror

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat Aug 03, 2002 4:38 am

As soon as PH tells me his latest and greatest revision is done ... I'm still waiting for it myself for my own use.

I'll post it and some instructions for using it on my web as I have plenty of bandwidth.

Galak

Pink Horror · Post by **Pink Horror** » Sat Aug 03, 2002 6:24 am

If you didn't have so many teams and characteristics in your league I'd be done by now!

Pink Horror

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat Aug 03, 2002 2:58 pm

You don't need to program in each team .... I'll work on that ... if you miss a characterstic ... I'll discuss it with you.

Galak

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Tue Aug 06, 2002 2:52 pm

I think that Chaos could be one of the best Team
so i dont agree with this thread.

Post by **Thadrin** » Tue Aug 06, 2002 3:54 pm

Would it be considered bad taste to suggest that the answer to the original question could be simply "Razor Sharp fangs"? Nudge nudge,

.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 9:30 pm

Rather than that they suck, i would say that like Dark Elves they have certain weaknesses that can be exploited (or just allowed to happen). Certain people have Chaos teams that season after season are laughing stocks and other Chaos teams take over their leagues, i have seen the same with Dark Elves. 2 DE teams in our old league slapped other teams and called them Susan (movie joke), another one lost to a team 50pts less because they had a 2 for 5 success rate in picking up the ball that game.

Dragoonkin · Post by **Dragoonkin** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 10:05 pm

Yeah in our League the Chaos team literally has yet to win a game, in 3 seasons. Two of his players died to a newbie Orc team (...Goblin chainsaw weapon...) last game.