How to play against a "castle" formation ?

[SeedyDirtbag]

Hi outthere, a ->Rookie Skaven<- player needs help !

When I play against hard and slow teams and they use the damn "castle" formation (the one in the middle has got the ball)

*a*
a*
*a*

then I don't know what to do ?

Ideas ?

Thx.

[Zombie]

It's called a cage and there are three ways to stop it.

1. (Only works with high-AG teams, but skaven are one of them.) Send a guy in using leap and knock the ball loose, then pick it up and score.

2. (Works with all teams, but especially with high-AV ones.) Stand your players one square away from the cage. Make sure any outsiders are well covered. Next turn, make all necessary blocks and/or dodges to ensure that all your players are still one square away, so that he can only blitz one of your players and can't block any.

3. (This one is definitely best suited to high-AV, high-ST teams.) Blitz one of the corner guys, apply tackle zones on the ball carrier and on the other guys forming the cage. Beat them with superior strength.

With skaven, i highly recommand #1. If it fails and you lose all your potential cage breakers, then switch to #2. Switch back to #1 as soon as the necessary players come back from their injuries (whether it be KO, BH or MNG).

[neverdodge]

i m not really a pro bloodbowl player, but when my opponent is doing so, i try to stay patient, making player get down one by one and waiting for him to make some mistake. That really depend on wich team you play, and wich team you re facing.

But if he put the formation you describe, why not try to take down one corner player and put some tackle zone on the balle carrier.

An alternative solution, if you re team isn t powerfull, is too simply surround him one square away from his players, and step one square back by dodging each turn, so he can only move one square each turn. Easy to say, not so easy to do

Hope it helps.

[Marcus]

It's very easy to stop a cage moving forward, but rather difficult to get the ball loose from it.

To stop the cage, use something like this

Code: Select all

....|..
.X.X|..
..X.|..
.X.X|.O
....|.O
.O.O|..
.O.O|..

That will make it very difficult for the opponent to roll forward.

Getting the ball out is another story.

For Skaven, skills like guard, strip ball, leap, horns and dauntless come in handy here.

Another tactic involves using gutter runners with sidestep, shadow or diving tackle.

First of all, you can get your assists up against the cage and blitz in with a Ratogre if you have one. This will put your strongest player up against the ball carrier. Prehensile tail will help prevent him dodging out. If you manage to deform the cage and stop him reforming, you can blitz in with horns, dauntless, or strip ball players and try to turn the ball loose.

The other option is to blitz away one of the corners and run in gutter runners with diving tackle or shadowing. Get 2 of them in there at a minimum. It helps at this point for the GRs to have block, dodge and sidestep, to make it difficult to shake them off. The diving tackle and/or shadowing will make it difficult to get the ball out of there.

Personally, I play to ensure they never get the chance to form the cage at all. I always get a linerat with kick and kick deep. Then I run storm vermin and gutter runners down the flanks and charge down the ball carrier. I use passblock and foul appearance players between the thrower and the front line - both to isolate the thrower and shut down his chances of a successful pass.

It doesn't always work, and when it doesn't, frankly your best option is not to get stuck in trying to ruck it out - you'll only get hurt. Fall back to restricting their cage if you're already a TD ahead and let them make mistakes and burn rerolls trying to roll out.

Marcus

[Longshot]

All here are gettong good advices, i havent anything else to say.
'Castle formation is quite good tactics but it can be beat.

[Haar]

I just started playing a Dark Elf team, and after seven matches I have scored far more points on forced turnovers getting the ball out of the cage than I have on regular offensive plays where I receive the kick.

My technique would be a little harder for skaven, since Dark Elves are AV8 instead of 7. Mostly what I do is get some guys in front of the cage as mentioned above. Sometimes I will put a guy on a corner player just so I can pin the cage down (if that guy throws a block he's not moving that turn). Eventually your opponent will make a mistake. They will either roll double skulls, run out of time, or get impatient and overextend. Then crunch them. My hitters are a blitzer with dodge and strip ball and a witchelf with block. I can usually get one in there (AG4) and get some hits on the ball carrier. Once the ball pops free, don't go for it right away. Put some tacklezones on it, maybe push another opponent into it to see if it will scatter into the open.

Remember to always leave a cherry picker near the endzone. Once you have your hands on the ball, either huck it downfield or hand it off to somebody who can get down there. With a little foresight, you can convert dropped balls into points in one turn. The added benefit to this is once your opponent notices, he has to start covering your pickers, leaving his cage all that much weaker.

Finally, once you do get the ball handler on the ground, foul him. Especially if he's a specialized ballhandler (with stuff like catch or sure hands, or the one AG3 or AG4 guy on the team). Getting him out of commission is almost as important as scoring.

Remember to be Very Patient. Don't overextend, put defenders where you thing your opponent will want to move the cage next. Somebody on the board (I think it was chet) said to defend where the ball is going to go. Good advice.

Another thing I try to do is to force the inexorable cage to advance to the sideline (diagonally). Sometimes if they're pinned against the sideline they run out of options. Sometimes this doesn't work, it depends on who controls that territory.

[Nermal]

this is a skill used a lot in our south wales league.

there are quite a few solid hard teams who are using it to good effect.

the fast teams are looking to create cage breaking players (dave)

his plan is to get a leap block strip ball player to jump in and take out the ball carrier. i am planning to get loads of guard for the cage corners to protect him. but this is old hat.

try as said above to block your opponants progress and keep him away from your end zone.

for all you cage players out there, do not be afraid to move your squad on a diagonal, or even sideways to keep your men free to progress, and be aware if you dwarf teams are playing fast elf races. do not be afraid to keep your unit solid and to take your time in order to hold the ball, if you TD early then he may be able to score in the 2 or 3 turns befor the half ends. hold on to it and pummell him keep the ball and score when you are ready.

[Ddraig Coch]

Nerm

for all you cage players out there, do not be afraid to move your squad on a diagonal, or even sideways to keep your men free to progress, and be aware if you dwarf teams are playing fast elf races. do not be afraid to keep your unit solid and to take your time in order to hold the ball, if you TD early then he may be able to score in the 2 or 3 turns befor the half ends. hold on to it and pummell him keep the ball and score when you are ready.

The drawbacks to attempting to hold onto the ball for an entire half is slow team development and when the player comes out of the cage to score the TD, if the defensive coach has done his job, then the player usually has to make some dice rolls to be able to score.

Of course, that is dependant on who your opposition is. To slow down cages, just have your defense players one square away from the cage. Also, the idea of pinning down the cage by placing one player on a corner edge is a good idea.

In long running leagues, while the slow non-agile teams are scoring twice a game, my plan is for my wood elves to be scoring more, and hopefully developing much quicker.

Thats all for now

Dave

[Zombie]

Yeah, but bashing teams get more CAS (2 SPPs is not something to laugh at), so it all even out.

Besides, if a bashing team is not playing the clock, it will surely lose against any decent opposition. Especially if they're playing against a fast, agile team.

[Marcus]

I'd disagree with that on 2 counts:

1 - playing the clock is just the most conservative way to play. You can play bashing teams to score hard and fast if you put your mind to it. I generally find it easier that way.

2 - If you're playing your bashing team to score rather than run down the clock and score casualties you will pick up a good crop of SPPs.

Casualty SPPs are based on luck, TDs are based on skill. I know what I'd rather count on.

Marcus

[Ddraig Coch]

I agree with Marcus but feel stronger about it. I think playing the clock is a negative style of play, bashing teams should play aggresively and go for relatively quick TDs.

But I guess that is the Wood Elf in me talking. However, I have also played Humans, Orcs and Brets, I didn't hang around while playing them and liked to score as many TDs as possible.

Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever played a 'slow' team. It looks like I'm not qualified to talk on these matters.

I'll shut up now

Dave

[voyagers_uk]

I think it fair to say that if you are caging it and the opposition is withdrawing slowly. You are not playing the clock and it is more of a league progression slowing tactic on the part of the opposition as you rightly say they are hindering your teams development by getting in the way.

I detest taking turns with no movement when you could reasonably score. There are occasions though when it is all you've got left in the playbook.

[Zombie]

A good coach knows to play to his team's strengths and the other team's weaknesses. Playing an all out TD contest with dwarves vs wood elves is just asking to get creamed.

[Ddraig Coch]

Who'll be creamed, the Dwarves or the Elves ?

That is joking in part, but we know that the Dwarves start with a lot more skills than Elves. Characters starting with Block, Tackle & Thick skull is awesome.

Dave

[Haar]

Yeah, in a preseason game, I lost 0-4, my worst game ever. The opposing team, dwarves, got the ref in the first turn and proceeded to kick the snot out of my elves. I ended up with about 5 guys on the pitch for most of the game, and he scored twice a half quite handily. I learned a lot that game, hopefully I will do better when I face him again!