Could Pro Elves survive in this league?

[Lahatiel]

So we're about to start a new league: LRB4, TR100, semi-open format where there's no set schedule, but everyone eventually plays everyone else twice in a given period of time. Six coaches, I think, all of whom should be about the same level as moderately experienced and skilled.

Dark Elves have always been my team, and I do fairly well with them. But after playing them in so many leagues in a row, I was thinking about switching up, if just slightly. I was deciding between Pro and High Elves (having discounted Chaos Dwarves, a team I'm interested in but just didn't feel like right now), and had thought I'd settled on Pro. then I looked at what's been chosen so far by the other coaches (with one left to choose):

Chaos
Dwarves
Ogres
Orcs

Ouch.

Can Pro Elves survive in this environment? Should I rethink the Chaos Dwarves, just to know I'll have some players left after a couple of games? This will be, literally, my first time away from Dark Elves in years, so any input is appreciated.

[Rawne11]

I'd go with CDs definately.

[Cramy]

Pro Elves would definitely be a challenge. High Elves could do OK, as they are pretty much as robust as your Dark Elves.

Chaos Dwarves would be safer of course, but if you don't really feel like playing them ...

In our last league, we had the following teams:

Chaos
Orcs
Undead
Norse
Wood Elves

I thought the Wood Elf team would get clobbered, especially since the coach was used to playing Chaos Dwarves. Well, he didn't get any serious injuries the first couple of games and learned how to play with them, and he did very well. The Norse team had more problems.

One interesting thing that happened is that most coaches did not take the tackle skill (including me, which I later regretted) since they tried to take skills that would give them a strength advantage against the other strength teams. After 10 games, the Wood Elf players was dancing circles around my Orcs and most of the other teams.

In our current league, we have:

Pro Elves
High Elves
Amazon
Humans
Skaven

The Pro Elves team has not won a game out of the 4 played and has had lots of injuries. The High Elf team has had 2 deaths in his first 4 games, and his next game (against my Skaven) he will only have 9 elligible players.

Go figure.

All that to conclude: Pick the team that you feel like playing. Either way, things could go bad, might as well be with the team that you wanted to play with.

[JJB]

You want to get creamed early? Play pro elves.
You don't want to get creamed early? Play something else.

- I'm being a bit harsh, but I do find pro-elves not very liveable because of the rubbish linemen.

[honeycomb kid]

I disagree. Linos are relatively cheap, just worry about your positional. IMHO, if you can get through the first couple, you'll whup some serious ass. Just play safe safe safe.

[Dam]

I disagree. Linos are relatively cheap, just worry about your positional. IMHO, if you can get through the first couple, you'll whup some serious ass. Just play safe safe safe.

I guess that bolded out word and what it means depends on a coach's perspective ? 60K for AV7 doesn't make me feel too secure about my LOS , or the thought of having to replace them.

[dendron]

But you get a AG upgrade.

The AG is the key. You have to try that your opponent only has 1 block per turn that should be his blitz.
I must admitt that this is not very easy with the Pro elfs as they not fast enough to do so. So they could easily surrounded by your opponents.

I would make such choices not to look at the other teams as already has been said. Play your game and hope for a bit luck. With bad luck no team is saved being slaughtered...

Dendron

[Darkson]

We had:

Orcs
Dwarfs
Khemri
2 Necros
Norse
and Lizardmen
(plus Halflings, who were actually Cas machines, not the trees).

Our Pro-Elf team faired well, coming in 3rd overall, 2nd in TD's. Except for the fact he took a couple of deaths in his first 2 games (Blitzer game 1 [no Apo], Catcher game 2 [Apo failed]) he'd have likely made the final, and would have had a good shot at winning.

And he caused 1 less cas than he took over 14 games.


P.S. No Dodge on any player!

[El Hombre]

It all depends on your coaching skills really...

I'll be starting a pro team in our league next year, a league stuffed with ST-teams... I'm tired of bashing against bashing...

But i did plan on giving dodge before block, so that they could run away a bit easier. And then aim at the one-blitz, zero-blocks per turn...

I know it sounds easy

Let us know how you're doing.

Greetz
El Hombre

[mattgslater]

Should I rethink the Chaos Dwarves, just to know I'll have some players left after a couple of games?

I say Pro Elves have at least as good a shot at doing well in that league as CDs do. Hobgoblins, while cheap, are all-important to CD teams and are no less fragile than Pro Elves (in fact, their AG3 makes them more fragile, as they can't dodge away as easily): your Dwarves and BCs will survive game to game, but a bad game against Orcs or Ogres or anything else you're worried about can do a lot of harm to players you can't really afford to lose. (I suspect Ogres will have a similar problem, as they look like they need their gobbos pretty bad.) I've eaten an awful lot of CD teams with my Orcs, and it always goes the same way: I foul the hobbos to keep them from scoring, then run circles around the Dwarfs and BCs. Chaos Dwarf heavy-hitters (CDs and BCs) are pretty good, but they're not any better than Orcs or Dwarves in a straight-up blockfest, especially when the opponent is geared up to deal with a bunch of Strength teams. Elves at least have the advantage that in order to knock out their scorers, you have to get them ALL.

This is not to say that there aren't more team-management issues with Elves in a league like this; I just don't think that CDs really avoid the Elf trap much better than Elves do. I guess it really depends on your self-confidence as a head coach. If you're not convinced you're at least as good as the better players in the league, go Chaos Dwarf and buy extra Hobbos early-on, but if you think you're skilled enough to keep your team alive, Pro Elves look like they're an awful lot of fun.

[Duke Jan]

I think pro elves will do no worse in this league than in any other. For AV7 teams the first matches are always critical.

Don't be too scared of them hitting you. Any team is going to block your AV7 guys with two dice in their favour, so ST4 or 5 doesn't have to make that big a difference for the pain factor. It just gives your opponent more freedom to position his players. It's for a reason high ST players without block generally develop slowly.

Use your sidestep on defense, so get blocked! Try to draw troll slayers into a 2 dice against block. Besides, it is a weapon against cages. Although you do need a bit more luck than for leaping into a cage, it does work.

Also you can catch the ball in TZs with your NOS catchers, so you can pass before you move, a great weapon. Especially if you can get two of them within scoring range. NOS is a trait for a reason.

Don't rely on dodge too much for your linos, block is even more important, you can't avoid blocking. You can dodge on a 2+ already. Besides, dodge is useless against the dwarf LOS you'll be facing 20% of the time.

[Lahatiel]

Thanks for all the opinions, everyone. I've decided in the end that I am still going with the Pro Elves. On top of agreeing with all the points Duke Jan and Matt just made, it really goes back to the most important point, which Cramy made: playing the team I want to play. I'd already felt I wanted to play Pro Elves and hold off on trying the Chaos Dwarves, and that's what I'm going to do; I'm not going to let the team choices made by others dictate my own. I'm sure it will be tough but all of my experience lies in the agility game, anyway, so this will play to my coaching strengths even if the opposing stat lines might look troublesome on paper.

Now just wish me luck when they're making those AV rolls!

[dendron]

Good luck with your choice!

May the dices be with you!

Dendron