Revisiting the "Wall of Pain" defense

[MattShepherd]

I'm running a Delf team in a five-player bash league (Dark Rugby variant, but this is more a general tactics question than PBBL question).

As a result, I'm the only team with ST3 across the board vs. +ST teams: Khemri, Orc, Nurgle and CDwarf. It's very early in the season (three games) and I'm already settling into the "start every game shorthanded" problem due to repeated injuries.

So I see this defense set up against me a lot: take last night's Khemri game for example. When I receive, this is his setup, all players on the LoS.

-MS-SMSSSMS-SM-

At that point, I had 8 players on the pitch: one WE, 5 linos, 2 Runners with Dump Off.

I'm finding this a VERY tough line to get past. I'm forced to use one (or negative) dice blocks to start off with no blockers (or wrestlers), and then more dodging than I'd like to get through (with only one dodging Witch Elf).

My strategy (which would have worked out, except for a single-block skull and a "1" dodge on my first move of a turn) was to pick up the ball and hang back, letting my opponent's move differential (3 mummies, 5 skeletons) start to spread out the "Wall of Pain" so I could try to sneak around one side.

Had he advanced three squares at a time, however, I don't know what I could have done without taking the high risks of 1-d blocks, negative dice blocks, and lots and lots of dodges. At this point in the game, I'd suffered turnovers on 6/8 turns thanks to failed dodges, so I was getting pretty gunshy about rolling more of those dodge dice.

Any tried, tested and true strategies against this? Just sucking up the skulls, trying the 1d blocks and praying to open a hole somewhere?

Two rerolls doesn't seem nearly adequate with this team...

[slup]

As an elf coach you must roll a lot of 2+ rolls.
A 1-die block with block is nothing more than that.

He is very vulnerable in his own half.
All you need is 1 player getting through the line and he has to split up his team chasing both the ballhandler near your own end and the possible receiver and his low MA does not help him here.
Getting leap and guard on doubles would be good.
Otherwise try to get the witch elf around the outermost mummies (2x3+dodge and a 2+ dodge, possible).
After one or two times having to run half his team backwards to cover 1 receiver makes him deploy different.

[Old Man Draco]

I would have tried to dodge straight through with the WE. 2x times 4+ and RR with a WE is possible and even if it fails the ground is not as hard as the fist of a mummy (usually).

He will never catch you once your though. Make the pass, pray he does not get that lucky 6 and the TD is yours.

Sounds simple but I think it's all you can do. And I still hate Khemri!

[Al the Trowel]

It's a defence my Woodies suffered with in the last season. Not quite so difficult with leapers - but 3+ with no re-roll is quite big a risk for a team that could suffer elf disease at any given time.

You're right in that you need the other team to spread out so that you have the advatage of higher ag and higher movement. Hanging back and letting him come to you, whilst tyring to dodge a lino (less expensive than the Witch) through the side seems like the best plan to me. If the lino gets through they have to send a runner or two after him, which you gives you space. Though if he doesn't at least they still need to move forward to pressure the ball. Hopefully opening the space you need.

If the line stays solid, I'd then consider luzzing the ball deep into his backfield. Chip and charge! Your elves should be faster than his skellies, and gaps will appear if he moves back to retrieve the ball. And even if he does get there first the thro-ra will probably spend a couple of turns fumbling around trying to pick it up.

But you're right the wall of pain is nasty for under manned teams.

[wesleytj]

the answer is leap. having at least one, preferrably 2, leapers on your team will force your opponent to play a more standardized defense. if they don't, then you've got them beat! Take a blitzer with leap, leap him over the line, dodge once, gfi twice and he is out of reach of those skellies on the line. you've moved 9 squares, skellies maxx out at 7, so even though you've spotted them a square they still get by.

[MattShepherd]

Short term: no leap. And giving my cas record, I don't know if anyone's going to survive long enough to enjoy it.

My concern with the WE running in is not only the two 3+ dodges and one 2+ dodge, but also the MA7. I'm suddenly staring down at least one GFI to prevent a double-die skeleton blitz on the WE in the next turn. Granted those skeletons would have to GFI too, but there's a lot less dice-rolling on his end to hit me than on my end to get there.

With Skaven or Woodies or any MA8 team I'd be fairly comfortable with the "run for it" strategy, but I just don't feel that MA7 gets me to safe distance before the odds start closing in around me.

[Gorbad]

I wouldn't try and dodge or leap through through either.

The plan of holding back for a turn, letting them mess up their line is one option, but if you either have a ST4 or dauntless guy or are in a terrible hurry, you could heed slup's advice (and one which I'd give as well) and look into the 1die block on the skeletons near the widezone (one of them is bound to have no block), and a 2d blitz on the other one. Or even a 2die block on both. This will leave you with one guy in a mummies TZ if you have no ST4, or a few 2+ dodges but well.. you are in a hurry.

One knockdown is required, and then you can pour through the gap and create a loose cage on the other side of the line. And as he doesn't have enough speed to circle round, and all his guys are on the LOS, you should have no trouble scoring without giving him a chance to hurt you.

[falconeyed]

Any Guard? I would attack the three skelles in the middle and make your hole there.

[MattShepherd]

No skills.

[wesleytj]

ok, outnumbered, no skills, you're screwed. your best bet is dodging at the corners.

you could also set up for a 1d block against a mummy on the edge. a pushback would eliminate the dodging.

sorry.

[MattShepherd]

It's going to be a long season...

[fen]

The weak points in that line up seem to be located at the junction of the LoS and the Wide Zone.

|-MS-SMSSSMS-SM-
|----^-----------^----
Here and there.

This point is the structural weakness that's easiest to exploit. A 1D block vs the skeleton on the end of the LoS then gives you a 2D block against the other skeleton in the wide zone. (no need to follow up on either one, don't want to be next to a mummy do ya?) and then you have a gap to run several players through and throw/run the ball down if it gets widened enough by knocking down the skeletons.

Plus because you're setting up second you can weight your line up infront of one of those points ready to plough about 7 players through. (leaving 2 linemen plus the ball collector on the other side if you intend to send the ball through immediately, which could be possible.

Do that once or twice and (Barring perfect defense) you should teach him to keep some players backfield and remove some of the pressure from your drives.

At least, that's the theory...

[juck101]

hmmm.
As noted above HAVING leap will force them to adapt which should open up more room. Using leap is a different thing

Another great option is the two turn "bully ram". Get ball and chuck start of turn - bash a blitzer 7 squares up the pitch (on a one dice hit) and go for one extra square-run ball holder into a pocket. Follow up with all ma7 players and extra sqaure x2 to get some loose cage/screen. Maybe not fail safe but will ram the ball so far that you will score on any recovery.
____________

Dont forget if offense is too hard - play defense.
Kick deep and concentrate on not letting the ball move into your half, whilst using your time to keep all your team alive. Make it 0-0 at the break and they should buckle.

[everyman]

I would forego any attempt at a two turn score against this lineup. Dodge off the LoS with your three line elves, pickup the ball, keep it protected, and wait for him to open up a hole. Also, stay spread out.

It's *possible* for him to just sit on the LoS in that formation and refuse to move his players, but most coaches don't have the discipline. Chances are he'll TZ as many elves as possible. When he does that he increases your chances of breaking through. Elves in TZs can throw pushback blocks, and you only need a one square hole to slip past.

Just play it patient and wait for an opportunity to present itself.

[Vero]

Code: Select all

|----156--------|
|-2-3-----------|
|-MS-SMSSSMS-SM-|

1) Number 3 blocks the los skellie with 1d and at least pushes him, do not follow.
2) Run number 5 next to the sideline mummy and the sideline.
3) Number 2 blocks the sideline skellie with 2d, getting a push or pow. If pow follow up.
4) If followed up run number 6 next to the sideline mummy.
5) Blitz with number 1 (a witch) and watch the crowd eat the frigtened mummy. It's a 2d+1d if the block at 3) was pow otherwice 1d+1d.
6) Run anybody left out of the hole and pick up the ball.