Talk Fantasy Football

Quick poll. I have an Ogre team (Vault Rules) and my new ball carrier just got his third skill and rolled a double to add to his Surehands and Break Tackle.

My first thought was Block so that he is much more resiliant to the inevitable 1/2D blocks come raining in on him when one of his cage mates Boneheads and lets the opposition straight through.

Im also wondering about dodge though as this gives him pretty much equal* ability to stay upright and combines well with break tackle to make a very mobile ball carrier and much harder to pin down.

Last of the major contenders in my mind is Pro. The team only has 2 RR's and these are frequently burnt up by turn 3-4 since there is a lack of basic skills and critical bonehead failures mean they use many more RR's than the average team. Pro would drasticly cut the number of times my cage is stalled because my ball carrier can't move and is also a big help with Blocks, Dodges and GFI's al of which this player does in abundance mostly without a RR to hand.

Also pass might be good since he often gets bogged down and the option to make a quick pass to a snotling with catch is tempting. With strong arm as his next pick (a ST skill in the vault) he could be a reasonable passer plus it can be used to improve my TTM relyability. My main reason for liking pass though is that I've always wanted to make an Ogre player who thinks he's a thrower just like other teams have and if you put the ball arm on the throwers body instead of the goblin arm it makes one serously cool mini. However tracking down the right parts for this now GW dont sell them separatly could be a nightmare .

Leader could be really useful since as I said I never have enough RR's and at 140k a piece it will take me some time to get more through winnings. This is my least favourite option because this guy has the potential to be a real starplayer and Leader is not as useful to him personally as some of the other options.


*Yeah, I know tackle cancels Dodge but wrestle will bring down Block so neither is 100% effective defence, though I have seen many more tacklers than Wrestlers which gives Block a small advantage in the survival sence.

Hi Underdog,

that's one great player you have there ! To me it's a toss-up between Block and Dodge. I think that I would choose Block as it protects him as good as Dodge when he's being blocked but with the added benefit that he'll be much more reliable when he's doing the blocking himself (and he will also do more damage).
It really comes down to how often you really have to dodge away from opponents (which already only fails in 1 of 6 times due to Break Tackle).

Btw., what's your record with your Ogres and how did you start your team? My league will be switching to PBBL-rules shortly and I'm thinking of maximising rerolls first (and only start with 3-4 Ogres). My current LRB-Ogre team still only has 2 rerolls and this has cost me A LOT of games...

Cheers

Tante Käthe

Block for me, basically because of the added injury potential (I am with Rudi Voeller here). Dodge is for pansies.

Pro is a close second, though. Looks like you need another double ... Or better yet, +ST.

Not an easy choice...

I share your unusual and optimistic view (for a lack of a better terms^^) on building a thrower with that ogre.
I say go for it!
My biggest concern would be related to (only) 2 re-rolls, but I guess you could give "leader" to the next one...

Cheers
Axt

Tante Kaethe wrote:
Btw., what's your record with your Ogres and how did you start your team? My league will be switching to PBBL-rules shortly and I'm thinking of maximising rerolls first (and only start with 3-4 Ogres).

My record is 3 wins, 6 draws( ) and 2 losses. But, without being too big headed Im probably the best coach in my gaming group and my elf team for example has a 12/2/2 W/D/L just to put it in perspective. The problem is though snotlings break so easily that I never have more than 7 players on the pitch by the end of the game and my opponant almost always seems to score on the last turn of the game to equalise (which is why I have so many draws).

I think going RR heavy is a great idea for an Ogre team. The reason I didn't was because at the time I created the team all Ogres had Loner meaning they could only use their RR's on a 4+ and at 70k a piece they didn't seem woth it.

You can cope with 4 Ogres though (as I did for a long time due to multiple deaths) by picking opponants with higher TV and hiring mercinary Ogres. Also I highly recommend an Apoth! My first Sure Hands ogre got a gimpy leg (-1MA) and had to be retired. I've also got stuck with another -1MA Ogre and I've had two Ogre deaths! It takes so long to save up for a replacement Ogre and they get pretty well ganged up on in the late game and then fouled so you really need an apoth asap (but dont bother saving snotlings, even deaths).

The team is great fun to play though if you feel like a challenge. It plays much better than the LRB4 version. Snotlings are sooo mobile it makes getting 3D blocks not too difficult and its fairly easy to cover the ball in tiny TZ's (not to mention being the most cost efficient and mobile foulers ever) but as I said make the most of them in the first half as there wont be very many left in the second!

If I was starting a team now Id go for:

4x Ogres = 560k
4x RR = 280k
8x Snotlings = 160k
0x FF
TOTAL = 1,000k

If I took an Ogre death or SI in the first game I'd retire the team and my first purchase would be an apoth, then save for the 5th Ogre. You'll have to buy snotlings frequently and you really need a 16man squad if you want to have players to defend with in the second half so the first few games will be difficult and you'll have to hope you roll good winnings.

Best Skills IMO:
Ogre = Break Tackle, (Doubles = Surehands).
Snotling = Sneaky player, (Doubles = Dirty Player).

Hi Underdog,

thanks for your reply ! In fact, I was thinking of the same starting line-up that you have posted. But since the fixed starting-FF of 5 is now only an optional rule I might have to reconsider... (depending on which optional rules we are going to use in our league). Maybe 3 Ogres, 8 Snotlings, 5 Rerolls and 7 FF (for looong term development and making us of inducements ).

As for snotling skills, I think that Diving Tackle should also be a good pick, esp. as the little devils already have Side Step. Of course you need several Snotlings with this skill to really make use of it (but you always have to start with one ).

Cheers

Tante Käthe

I think when I created my team FF5 was free so it wasnt an issue for me.

I think even without the free FF5 optional rule in use I still wouldn't spend any cash on FF with Ogres to start but maybe thats just me . You certainly need the extra cash and RR's you get from higher FF but it doesnt play anything like such a big role as it did in LRB4 and I wouldnt want to start with less than 12 players or less than 4 Ogres. If you win your games your FF should go up quite quickly, but thats quite an iffy stratergy with these guys so I dont know what's best to advise.

I would always take block as I have to many painful experiences of 3 dice both down results

Underdog wrote:You'll have to buy snotlings frequently and you really need a 16man squad if you want to have players to defend with in the second half so the first few games will be difficult and you'll have to hope you roll good winnings.

Personally I think (I've not played as many Ogre games though) that I'm happier sitting at 11 players while saving for my 5 & 6 Ogres and using Journeymen Snotlings. Otherwise I've found the cost of replacing them pretty much doubles the number of games it takes to get more Ogres.

Of course, that's with a long term game plan in mind there, in the shorter league you probably won't have the luxury of sucking up a few losses to get the team stable.

fen wrote: Personally I think (I've not played as many Ogre games though) that I'm happier sitting at 11 players while saving for my 5 & 6 Ogres and using Journeymen Snotlings.

Does this actually work for you? Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing it but my experience would warn me against trying this stratergy. As you say, maybe a long term stratergy to get the full quota of Ogres asap.

You can only Hire journeymen (i.e. the free ones) if you can field less than 11 players in your next game and only up to a total of 11 players. While this a good rule and works great to protect elves from the downward spiral, if an Ogre team goes into a game without reserves I think they will be in real trouble. By the end of the first half I usually have about 1-2 Snot Cas, 1 Sent off for fouling and 1-2 KO'd. Without any reserves that will be most of my snotlings gone and when Ogres lose their snotlings they get ganged up on really easily, lose their ST advantage and, well, it gets pretty ugly as time goes by. Ill often lose an Ogre to a big foul when I get badly outnumbered. If the aim is to get more Ogres this is the last thing you want.

If you try to hire Mercinary snots with inducement money to get over 11 then thay would cost 50k each. The 30k premium is more than the basic cost so its particularly inefficient.

Basically I've just resigned myself to the 'snotling tax', i.e. frequently paying 20k to replace injured and dead snots... But trust me I have needed them (I sometimes think even 16 men isn't enough since SI 'd snots are often MNG and then I only have 2-3 reservers which I know wont last me the match).

One of the cool things about this team is there doesnt seem to be any established way to do things yet and dispite the simple looking roster there are some really tough decisions to make. I'm not saying I've done it right and everyone should follow in my footsteps. Your way may well be better and in time we will probably know but at the monet its unclear. I've made a lot of male chicken-ups and I've been punished for it but at least the PBBL rules are stable enough to recover from these mistakes and now my team is finally starting to look like it could win a game or two.

You've hit the nail on the head with the problem that this strategy has.

But I'm personally content to play up the TV a bit and induce Star Players or Merc Snotlings to make up for my lack of numbers. Sure it's inefficient, but that's the price I'm willing to pay to get to 6 Ogres.

Still, it's hard to say what the right thing to do will be. Early days stil...