Wood Elf or Dark Elf

dwarfrunner · Post by **dwarfrunner** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:29 pm

I am starting in a new league under LRB5. I usually play dwarfs or Orcs simly because they are easier in shorter leagues. But this league is going to be an open system, so I can get in as many games as I want. And with the new rules, I dont have to worry so much about losing lots of people initially. The league will consist of:

Orc x2, Human, Nurgle, Khermi, Norse, Dark Elf. I really want to play an elf team simply because I love running up the score, and am tired of winning in the final turn of the game in a squeaker.

So my question to you is, which of the two teams would you play?

My rosters are most likely going to be:

DE
1 - blitzer
1 - assasin
1 - runner
8 - lineman
3 - RR
2 - FF

WE
2 - wardancer
9 - lineman
2 - RR
3 - FF

I may change some FF for assistant coaches or cheerleaders, but the rest of the team will stay the same.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:33 pm

If you've played both rosters before in previous editions, why not try out the dark elves? they've undergone the most significant change, and are therefore a very neat team to play.

that was the logic that helped me make the exact same difficult decision a few months ago in our league.

and dark elves can win, too... i'm 4-1-1 so far and my team is looking really good after a few early CAS.

Solarhaphaeriom · Post by **Solarhaphaeriom** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:32 pm

Dark Elves, because they, in my eyes, will force you to consider tactics and adapt in a way that wood elves, with an awesome passing game and possibility for one turn scorers, will not.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:23 am

Depends on what you want as both teams have a very distinct playing style, like Solarhaphaeriom said.
Dark Elves play agile bashy, they can run, pass or stall the ball and can put up a solid, tough defence. They are harder to use as you need adapt tactics with regard to opposition and situation. Not as easy as it seems.
Wood Elves always force their own style of play, going for the quick passing score, regardless of the opponent. They also tend to put up a more hit-or-miss defence. They are more one-dimensial and definately easier to win with (but just as hard to keep alive).
While Dark Elves need some development to be a great team, Wood Elves are awesome out of the box.

NightDragon 2 · Post by **NightDragon 2** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:56 pm

Definately Darkies as they are more tactical and therefore more fun. They are not as predictable as Woodies who either stun everyone with their speed before they get kicked in or just get kicked in.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:37 pm

I like the Dark Elves as well, for the same reason as the others mentioned. You have to adapt to the team you will be playing against, which can be difficult. On the other hand, you are decent at everything, so it is difficult for you opponent to plan for what you are going to do.

And with the runner and assassin and the new skills, there are many ways to develop the team. I just started a league with DEs. I'm still struggling to figure-out in which direction I will take these guys. Team development will be lots of fun.

My starting lineup was:
3 Blitzers
2 Runners
1 Assassin
5 Linemen
2 rerolls
We get 5FF for free in our league.

besters · Post by **besters** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:41 pm

I have to admit to voting Dark Elf, mainly because I have a team I love, but which I don't play very well. Like others, I think the two teams are very different, you can do far more with WE initially, but I think both teams can be fun to play, just learn to live with being two or three players down in the 2nd half, or is that just me, I seem to be lucky if I have more than five or six players on the pitch by the end of the game.

Best of Luck whichever team you pick.

Besters

Jeremiah Kool · Post by **Jeremiah Kool** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:11 pm

IÂ´d go for Dark Elves. They are not ultrafast like Woodies but they still have AG 4 and the team has access to six excellent positionals with MA 7 (or 7/8 when you include the Runner) which can get Blodge easily. And I feel because of AV 8 on many players you arenÂ´t required to play as careful as you have to as with Wood Elves.

Dark Elves can definetely win, in the last tournament I played one team finished second place and another one finished fourth. This was a TR 100 tournament.

(Witch Elves may be my favorite player in Blood Bowl.

)

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:55 am

Jeremiah Kool wrote: (Witch Elves may be my favorite player in Blood Bowl. )

Which elves?

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:31 am

I'd go for Woodies given your background. With wood elves you won't be tempted to do too much blocking, with dark elves you will which shall eventually wipe out your team. Wood elves aren't just one dimensional. But, like with dwarves, the challenge of wood elves is to keep the game fun. If you don't work on your defence you'll be as tired of passing and scoring as you got of the turn 8 win.

fen · Post by **fen** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:49 am

Dark Elves, for the same reason they're so popular in LRB4. They're more resiliant than Woodies, that's pretty key if you're going to be taking part in any league with long term development/open/lots of matches. Playing woodies in the TV220+ Section kinda sucks, especially as the Human, Norse and Orc teams will have sufficient Tackle + MB by that time.

That and 4 Blitzers = Whee!

TuernRedvenom wrote:Wood Elves always force their own style of play, going for the quick passing score, regardless of the opponent.

Ugh, that's one of the reasons many Wood Elf coaches suffer losses. I see no reason to score in less than 5 turns against 2-1 teams (that kick and aim for the 2-1 win) with Woodies unless I'm already ahead. I'll quite happily faff about in my end zone with the ball until I've left too few turns for the other team to score back. Even against other fast teams I try and take 3-4 turns to score.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:01 am

fen wrote:
TuernRedvenom wrote:Wood Elves always force their own style of play, going for the quick passing score, regardless of the opponent.
Ugh, that's one of the reasons many Wood Elf coaches suffer losses. I see no reason to score in less than 5 turns against 2-1 teams (that kick and aim for the 2-1 win) with Woodies unless I'm already ahead. I'll quite happily faff about in my end zone with the ball until I've left too few turns for the other team to score back. Even against other fast teams I try and take 3-4 turns to score.

Sure you can, and probably win easily but a good coach will make your team bleed if you play like that and in the long term that will catch up with you.
It's easier to play keep-away if your opponent has the ball and needs his guys to protect it. Certainly if one is not that experienced with elves.

fen · Post by **fen** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:23 am

How is it easier to play 'keep away' when you're moving second and reacting to your opponent?

I've always found it easier to keep my players intact when I have the ball, because I entirely dictate the pace of the match, as soon as I feel there's been too much bleed from the one blitz + foul a turn I'm suffering then I can score. On the defense if I'm playing 'keep away'

then after a certain point if I've lost too many men then I can forget about controlling the pace of this drive and I have to wait for them to decide when to score.

Plus by doing this I get to increase the efficiency of KO recovery in the first half and then I get to score 2-3 turn TDs for the rest of the match because I'm ahead.

Teaching less experienced coaches an easier, but possibly incorrect path simply results in more losses for them. Winning and keeping your team intact are not mutually exclusive if you're agressive in the correct manner. The very concept that a good coach can make you hurt more if you're stalling on offense is simply ludicrous, they can hurt you equally, if not better when they have the ball and you're on defense. It's not like they have magically better players when you're recieving, they have exactly the same potential for damage on both drives, except you're in control of the ball when receiving.

Case in point. My last match with Woodies vs Orcs, I was forced to recieve so I'd KD'd and fouled a BoB and a Blitzer off the pitch by turn three. Needless to say, the Orc player then struggled against superior numbers, he wasn't expecting such a vicious opening broadside, and who cares about Orc AV when you're facing a DPer with 3 assists? Final score was 2-1 to me and because I had them outnumbered all match, I only suffered 1 BH. And I've repeated this several times with chain crowd pushes and fouls in other matches. Mind you, I will conceed that not every coach builds a dedicated fouler for Woodies in LRB5 or fields a Frenzy Wardancer.

Bottom line, I think that promoting the image that Woodies should score in 2 turns is just wrong. It's often better to use the threat that they can score in 2 turns rather than actually doing it. With Wood Elves the threat of what you can do is always your greatest tool, even if you actually do nothing with that threat.

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:32 am

Have to agree with Fen here. I'm not the most brilliant woody coach myself, but the point is to get the ball and keep it away from your opponent and force him to abandon his usual strategy. So if you receive: don't score in 2 turns, no matter how tempting it sometimes is.

Pregal · Post by **Pregal** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:42 am

I agree with Fen also, I'm one of those players that struggles when the Wood Elves don't score in 2 or 3 turns but take a lot longer (I usually play dwarves). Last match against Duke Jan I made the mistake of not going after his ball carrier immediately to make him score fast so I was having a problem with having enough turns to score.