Lizardmen?

[StompLord]

Howdy!

I'm new to Blood Bowl, and I'm starting up with a team of lizardmen.

I'm starving for advice on:

1) What strategies (offesive and defensive) should I employ?

2) To this end, what basic formations should I use?

3) As my team gathers star player points, what skills should I learn for both my sauruses and skinks?

Thanks a ton!

[Ddraig Coch]

I've only played against a Lizardman team once, and my tactic was to take out the skinks. Eventually the opposition ran out of skinks and couldn't pick up the ball. It was an easy win after that.

Lesson #1 - Have enough skinks.

Lesson #2 - Where possible, try to protect them

Lesson #3 - If you are a new coach, try Orcs or Humans. They are more balanced. Lizards are not the easiest team to 'cut your teeth on'

[Marcus]

Yeah, I'll echo point 3

A lot of what you'll learn with Lizardmen won't necessarily teach you good lessons about bloodbowl in general.

I'd recommend orcs, humans or high elves for a starting coach. They will give you a good overall understanding of some of the things you can and can't do with a team.

Marcus

[Ghost of Pariah]

From what I've seen alot of
and

is what most lizardmen coaches use.

<Pariah backs out and puts on his asbestos jumpsuit>

[Zombie]

Best advice: don't play lizardmen. Apart from the joke teams (goblins and halflings), lizardmen are by far the worst choice of race a newbie could make.

You should play something basic, with throwers and cheap players, until you grasp the basic concepts of the game. This includes humans, orcs, skaven, norse and amazon. You could take something else if you insist, but lizardmen are way out there and i strongly suggest you reconsider. After you've played a full season with a basic team, then you could try the lizardmen if you want.

[Anthony_TBBF]

In the hands of the right coach they can be a threat, A Lizardman team did win Resurrection afterall...

[StompLord]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the warning.

The problem is, I have a very limited budget (both in $ and time), and already have my figures nicely painted, etc. Therefore, my mind is pretty set on playing with the lizardmen, and I'm a pretty stubborn person.

Forget the fact that I'm a newbie. What would you do if you were starting up a team of lizardmen?

What strategies, tactics, etc. would you employ?

Thanks!

[sean newboy]

One quick tip on formations, a good one for Lizardmen, especially in the beginning is called the 3-4-4. 3 on the los (saurus and/or krox), then 4 a couple of squares back (as many saurus as u have left), then another 4 just behind them.

[Marcus]

Hey you could always use the miniatures and call them chaos....

Lizardman suggestions in brief:

Saurus: alternate block and break tackle for first skills. You can't afford to have them tied down so a few with break tackle will really make a difference.

Skinks: Stuck for skills but if you get a double then sure hands comes in extremely handy. Other than that it's the standard sidestepping fare.

On offence: Don't get into a ruck or you'll find your Saurus pinned and the opposition going on a skink hunt. I've had success driving hard and fast down one side, and screening off a lane. Don't break away with your skinks too early as they're easily overwhelmed. Break Tackle Saurus will help ensure you can keep a drive moving.

On defence: Harrass the backfield with skinks and try to force errors from the quarterback. Maintain a solid line with the Saurus and try to blunt the drive forward. Use skinks for harrassment and to get the assists in to free up your Saurus.

General tips: Just because you have dodge and stunty doesn't mean you should always run through tacklezones. Always take the Path Of Least Dice.
Don't let yourself get into a situation where your Saurus are pinned down in a fistfight. With such shocking AG Saurus are easily pinned down. Mobility is your strength. Get break tackle and keep your team fast and fluid.
Build a running game. You don't have the players to build a good passing game.
Always try to keep your skinks behind your Saurus on offence, make them come through the Saurus to get to them. Only break for the line when they have no chance of stopping you.

Good luck

Marcus

[Korhil]

One of my friends recently tried to play a Lizardmen team.

He tried the Line up of:
4 Saurus (only 4 so he could fit a 3rd Re-Roll)
7 Skink (spliting 6/5 with only 2 Re-Rolls from the start seamed risking and may result in not being able to play the ball)
3 Re-Roll
8 Fans

And found he couldnt create a fliud cage because at least 2 Saurus had to hold the Line and with only 2 left to Blitz he couldnt protect the Ball Carrier well enough, or keep it moving since most of the players in his 'cage/pocket' were ST2 and couldnt block there way foward.

So he scrapped the team (5 skinks got nailed during the course of them trying to pocket the ball)

Line up of:
6 Saurus (means only getting 2 Re-Rolls, but means he should be able to cage)
5 Skinks
2 Re-Rolls
9 Fans
1 Cash (goes towards the Apoth and more Skinks since 5 is a little light)

This game went ALOT better to start with, he was able to get smash the front line and still have 3 ST4 players to run up a flank and hold it. I wasnt able to stop him scoring so I started to pick on the Skinks I could and just provide tackle zones everywhere so he'd still have to work for it. I got 2 of the Skinks off the field during that drive and then managed a 1 Dice Blitz on the Ball Carrier, Dodged another guy in, and Threw the Ball out in-accurately. So he got the ball Back, but now the Skinks werent covered well enough and another 2 got nailed leaving him with just 1.
After I scored and he was receiving again I managed a Deep Kick and his 1 Skink got the ball and he ran some Saurus back to cover him, but that isnt much resistance really, only one of his players was a threat it was just a matter of time before I could work in a 1 Dice Block on the guy with a Blitzer. Also just standing player to his 3 in the front and letting them get hit meant he only could bring 3 Saurus back defend the Skink... never going to be enough.

So... he' given up playing them and gone back to Wood Elves (a team where everyone is a REAL scoring threat).

With slightly better luck the team would be OK... it depends if you can keep all the skinks safe (or at least 3 safe for the whole game). But I'd have to say that the team cant function without 6 Saurus in the starting line, you can create gaps otherwise and relying on Stunty/Dodge is asking for trouble. If you did dodge through with a guy he'll just get Blitzed and fouled off leaving you with less Skinks. And if he did get through and lived, its not like anyone can throw the Ball... is it?

---Korhil

[StompLord]

Thanks a lot, Sean, Marcus, and Korhil. Very good input.

Here's how my season has gone so far:

I started with 4 saurus, a ton of skinks, and a huge fan factor (because I knew I'd have to buy the other two sauruses ASAP). In my first match, I went up against some Wood Elves, and got drubbed 2-0... but luckily, didn't lose any players. I bought my fifth saurus. In my second tilt, I beat some Dark Elves 2-1 in OT on some lucky kickoffs (my fans rushed the field TWICE). Then I bought my sixth saurus and rolled doubles for a skink and took sure hands. In my third game, I dominated our league's Goblin team 4-0, and learned block for two sauruses, and diving tackle for two skinks (this might've been unwise, but my league is really Elf-heavy). Game four, I beat a Wood Elf team 2-0, thanks to my sauruses knocking a lot of their heads. In my fifth game, I was humiliated by a Norse team, 2-0, but learned block for a third saurus and side-step for another skink. I've been lucky enough to not suffer any deaths (my apoth. saved me twice)... So now I have a full 16-player squad -- 6 sauruses and 10 skinks. Three of the sauruses have block, two skinks have diving tackle, one has sure hands, and one has side-step.

I've been using the 3-4-4 since the second game, with good success. Now, I'll focus on picking up break tackle for my sauruses, as per your advice. It'll really help my offense.

Thanks again!


If anyone else has any good advice for lizardmen, I'm all ears...

[sean newboy]

Dont forget to replace one skink with a Kroxigor, bonehead is not that bad, and in October he will prolly pick up Mighty blow for free from the bbrc.

[Korhil]

Elves, Elves, Goblins, Elves, Norse...

That will make starting alot easier... lucky to not have Orcs, Chaos, or Dwalfs to play against.

Lizardmen are like Wood Elves I guess, if you get off to a good few games with no deaths then your team will just flow nicely.

By the same token if you went with the 6 Saurus starting line against those teams you should get away with it as well, smashing more AV7 opponents along the way. WoodElves & Scaven are faster than you, but the others are only as fast.

The other non-aparent advantage with starting with 6 Saurus and 5 Skinks is that a Saurus is more likely to get the MVP. Skinks can always get a TD for skills, a Saurus relies on Casualties (& MVP's)

I'd develope Saurus like (not necesarily in this order, but these skill lines):
Block, Mighty Blow, Tackle
Block, Tackle, Mighty Blow
Block, Guard, Mighty Blow
Break Tackle, Block, Tackle
Break Tackle, Block, Strip Ball
Stand Firm, Break Tackle, Block (assuming at least 1 gets a double)

You cant get them all Block, Might Blow even tho that should mean they get there 3 skill quicker, but a 3rd skill is still a long way off for someone who can only get points from Casualties. So spread your 2nd skills through Tackle & Guard... Obviously you need some Tackle for Ball Retival, and at least one Guard for the Line in nice, it also means he can help the Skinks throw a Block.

They all want a mix of Block, Tackle, Stand Firm, Break Tackle, Guard, Mighty Blow, Strip Ball, Pro, Frenzy.
Piling-On might be an idea, but you should just use Mighty Blow so they stay on their feet and use there speed to your advantage. With Break Tackle & Stand Firm they are solid on defense for the Line and can move with some freedom. Id value Stand Firm over Dodge for these guys on Doubles since half of the Dodge skill isnt compatible with AG1.

Skills for Skinks (kinda in order of usefulness):
SideStep - Very good.
Leap - AG 3 can be risky, but having 1 or 2 Skinks with this gives you options that your opponent has to consider.
Diving Catch - Good for Stunties since they often throw in-accurate passes.
Catch - saves Re-Rolls, tho there are better first skills.
Sure Feet - MA 8 is heaps, they dont need this like other Stunties do.
Diving Tackle - If its working for you, use it.
Sprint - Take Sure Feet instead if you want more MA.. if you roll MA 10 for a guy then you could make a 1 Turner I spose.

On Doubles take Sure Hands or Block.

My thoughts...

---Korhil

[Zombie]

In the hands of the right coach they can be a threat, A Lizardman team did win Resurrection afterall...

Yes, i know that, but he said it was the first time he ever played Blood Bowl, and the team that most people agreed in the other thread that a newbie should not be playing is lizardmen.

[Cervidal]

Saurus will NEVER get to three skills unless they take a smush skill early on. I strongly suggest Piling On and Mighty Blow as your first picks for most of your Saurus.

Also... Diving Catch is a garbage skill. Don't throw the ball with this team. Catch is a much better skill. You can easily set up a pick-up, hand-off-score offense. There's no need to pass.

With skinks, unless you roll doubles, your picks should be Catch, Sure Feet, and Sidestep, in whatever order you need at the time.