Double 5 on a DE blitzer and normal skill on witch w block

dines · Post by **dines** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:48 am

Hi im playing in a rather short LRB 5 league, but with the possibility to continue with the team in the next league. There are 2 orc, 1 norse, 1 necro, 1 high elf, 1 human and 1 skaven team.

After the last match ive got a double 5 on my blodge blitzer and im really unsure what to pick for him. Guard would be nice, so would AV, MA or mighty blow.

I also got a skill with my witch. She already has block. Im thinking about taking side step or fend as some more safety for the poor girl. Tackle does not seem that useful in this league and could hinder crowdpushing. Any other ideas?

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:53 am

Personally I would take the MA on the blitzer. Dark Elf positionals really need that extra bit of speed. Although Mighty Blow is nice too, if you're in a league with a lot of sissy teams. I usually leave the +AV end Guard to linemen.
For the Witch Elf I'd definately take side step. It helps your crowdpushing a lot.

ps: tackle will never hinder crowd pushing as you can turn off the skill whenever you want, just as your opponent can turn off his dodge skill in LRB 5.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:23 am

I would go Dump Off on the Blitzer, he will then be the runner that the others want to become 7 3 4 8 Blodge Dump Off is a cool player

Witch Elf I would say go for either Side Step or Pass Block, I always used to give pass Block to my witch elves and they just rake in the spp's

Maybe Tackle followed by Strip Ball is an alternative to take advantage of the Frenzy option

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:41 am

Why give Dump Off to a player in a team that can standard get 2 players with the skill already (Runners)?
Besides, I really think Dump Off is a much overrated skill. It needs other skills to work properly and even then your ball carrier should get hit so rarely that it just isn't worth it. And when he does get hit you're usually in big trouble anyway and Dump Off isn't going to help much either.
I also don't like giving strip ball to a frenzy player. Strip ball is pin-point precision strike tool, frenzy is the absolute opposite. Usually ball carriers are surrounded by a lot of people and you wouldn't want to be frenzying in there, let alone be forced to follow up. If you get a push the ball is loose and your objective is reached, why would you want to risk a second block?
Just my experiences with Dark Elves of course.

dines · Post by **dines** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:22 am

Must say that Tuerns arguments seems most reasonable in my ears.

I already have a runner with DOf, MA+ and pass. Only used DOf once and without succes, as i was in 2 tackle zones, but he didn't have any players to take the ball. This is not a skill im planning on using and for sure would not waste the double 5 on that. As im actually one of the least bashy teams MA would probably be the choice.

Pass block is an interesting idea for the witch, have never really tried using this skill. It could be a nice asset against the high elves and skaven, but side step would probably be more useful against the other teams.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:46 am

Dump off is used correctly is a safety net for ball movement. No Ball carrier is 100% safe ever. and the faster, better armoured Blitzer is a good candidate for ball carrier, plus by bringing in a passing skill it is not wasting the double.

My personal experience of Dark Elves led me to try and be as flexible in my approach to skill choices as I could. If I wanted to have standard skill choices I would play Dwarves more often (Guard/MB)....

Witch Elves are fantastic creatures and worthy spp thieves after a while despite being AV7. The whole crowd push aspect of frenzy is sometimes too tempting and could leave you in danger. Side step is easily countered now with Juggernaut. I suggested Strip ball to highlight the whole push, strip ball, push further away from ball aspect of their game... to enable a clean pick up, it helps if you can keep pushing. Personally I try to build a pass blocking witch elf with NOS and eventually leap to really kick start offence near the LOS.

My fave player of all time is Witch Elf +ST, +AG, Block, Leap, NOS, Pass Block. she is on 201 spp's and got 3 interceptions and 2 TD's in her last game.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:01 pm

Well, seeing your comments I think our leagues are very different and as such we develop our teams differently. Our league has always been very bashy with often me coaching the only elf team of the whole league. Against bashy teams pass block is useless. Dump off is near useless. Your ball carrier will almost never get hit unless your drive goes to total shite and then it doesn't matter anyway. This has made my game develop towards anti-bashy myself -> agile bashy. Bash em where they are weak and give way/fold back where they overpower you. It works fine for me, the team usually starts slowly but after tv 160 they become very, very hard to beat. It looks to me like your league has a lot more AG teams so you play and develop differently.

But what I really don't understand is how that witch elf can get 3 interceptions in 1 game. Who on Earth would ever attempt a pass anywhere near that thing?

I still think Dump Off is an overrated skill. Yes teams like wood elves or skaven can always try to get at your ball carrier, fine, let them try. Just grab sure hands on a blodger and build a decent cage. That's still safer then dump off. I would only consider Dump Off if there were multiple STR 4, leaping players in the league.

edit: Juggernaut doesn't counter Side Step btw

dines · Post by **dines** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:08 pm

voyagers_uk wrote:Dump off is used correctly is a safety net for ball movement. No Ball carrier is 100% safe ever. and the faster, better armoured Blitzer is a good candidate for ball carrier, plus by bringing in a passing skill it is not wasting the double.

Well actually the runner is just as fast (faster at my team due to MA+), but yes better armoured and with block dodge... Until now i have primarily used the runner as a thrower. And i still think that the other skill choices would be more useful for the blitzer.

The pass block/NOS/catch witch seems more appealing to me, but starting with leap could also be interesting.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:19 pm

just some thoughts now:

I never take skills like Nerves of Steel, Catch and Pass Block because these skills help you bring down passing games and help you scoring -> elves don't need help scoring, they can score anytime, anyplace , anywhere IF they have the ball and you don't need to shut down passing plays if your opponent doesn't have the ball.
I find these skills no good for dark elves as defending vs passing plays is real simple: don't give them the ball. Control the clock and win 2-1. No need to put a lot of skills there that will only be of use on defence vs passing teams when you can invest in skills like guard, mighty blow, side step, fend, diving tackle,... that are usefull against almost every team on both offence and defence.

IMO that witch elf would be a lot more scary with eg Tackle and Side Step instead of NoS and Pass Block.

Da_Great_MC · Post by **Da_Great_MC** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:25 pm

+MA (or Guard) on the Blitzer

Sidestep on the Witch Elf

TuernRedvenom is right all the way.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:39 pm

TuernRedvenom wrote: But what I really don't understand is how that witch elf can get 3 interceptions in 1 game. Who on Earth would ever attempt a pass anywhere near that thing?

kick off to near sidelines LOS (lineman with Kick assisting with this) Witch and Blitzer also with AG5 leap NOS, Pass Block, leap over LOS when opposition thrower comes in to make pass rather than risk ball in open, pass block, tie up in tackle zones and intercept, before dodging away and running off for the score.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:40 pm

Da_Great_MC wrote:
TuernRedvenom is right all the way.

Does this mean I have to get someone from Essex to back me up.....

Da_Great_MC · Post by **Da_Great_MC** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:48 pm

voyagers_uk wrote:
Da_Great_MC wrote:
TuernRedvenom is right all the way.
Does this mean I have to get someone from Essex to back me up.....

Heh no. This has nothing to do with Gert being a Belgian.

It's just that Gert's arguments reflect the way I think about Dark Elves strategy. Skilling your Dark Elves is all about defense and that's where Sidestep rules.

Pass Block and Dump-Off are far too situational imho.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:52 pm

voyagers_uk wrote:
TuernRedvenom wrote: But what I really don't understand is how that witch elf can get 3 interceptions in 1 game. Who on Earth would ever attempt a pass anywhere near that thing?
kick off to near sidelines LOS (lineman with Kick assisting with this) Witch and Blitzer also with AG5 leap NOS, Pass Block, leap over LOS when opposition thrower comes in to make pass rather than risk ball in open, pass block, tie up in tackle zones and intercept, before dodging away and running off for the score.

Nice play, I agree, but once your opponent knows you can do that he should spread out a bit and cover the ball with more men. A short kick which he cannot cover (which is strange anyway) would have put him in big trouble regardless, even without pass block and nos on your side. You could have just whacked that thrower, or marked him with a diving tackle/sidestep player while setting a screen to the rest of the team or... A +AG, +STR, Block, Leap witch elf will cause anyone problems, no doubt about that.

Da_Great_MC does not play in my league though. Nor has he ever seen me coach dark elves or discussed Dark Elf tactics with me.

He is pretty good with dark elves though.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:55 pm

a simple "I agree with him" would have done the job then as opposed to "He is right all the way".... I mean he admitted himself that his league is very defined in it's approach and he could understand my approach given differing circumstances.

yes passblock is situational, but if you only ever do what is expected then you will have the same team every time....

I have sidestep on my Dwarf runners

, it is a fun skill to complete the cage.

I have Guard on my Pro Elf Catchers (scares the BeJeezus out of everyone they face - 8 3 4 7 Guard roving assists)

I concede that in general situations side step would work well, me I just want to be exceptional.....