Ex-norse coach wanting help with Rats.

[Darkson]

IF I can find a league I will be leaving my beloved norse (I need to do the conversions using the Plastic Marauders before I can bring them out of semi-retirement). My mate is lending me his Skaven team and I ws hoping the forum could give me some tips on what my starting team should be like.

[Colin]

Haven't played rat bastards in awhile, but from what I can remember, speed- need lots of speed. Buy as many GRs as you can, though a RO wouldn't hurt.

[CplSaint]

Cool - everyone ought to play the rat-men once in a while!

I recommend having 13 players, enough to save you from injuries, K.O.s and general bad luck.
I took two Stormvermin, three Gutter Runners, two Thrower and six linerats. In addition, I had two rerolls and a FF of 2.

In retrospect, I would have ditched the second thrower and third Gutter Runner for more linerats and upped the FF to 6.

Two Stormvermin is almost a necessity, and having a third Gutter Runner and second thrower is a useful reserve, but not really necessary. I'd buy them once I had some spare cash (which of course comes around quickly if you have a higher FF.) Next purchase is an apothecary, then two cheerleaders and two assistant coaches. Then save money for replacing players, 'cause by this point everyone's going to be gunning for the weedy AV7 of Skaven to get casualties.

(Check out five plays from my playbook in the 'Amazon vs Undead' thread for some quick and dirty tips for playing Skaven. Replace the third and fourth blitzers with linerats and a gutter runner and you'll see what I did to win 9 out of 10 games; including a nine game winning streak in my league!)

[Bevan]

Definitely only 1 thrower. He can reach the ball anywhere it lands after a kickoff and if he has has to leave the filed, just use a Gutter Runner instead. But a thrower with Sure Hands + Pass is great so get 1.

If you've read all about the problems with Wild Animal you won't start with a Rat Ogre.

I've seen coaches start with 4 Gutter Runners, but 3 is better, possibly only 2.

You need at least 1 Storm Vermin, preferably 2.

Fan Factor 8 or 9 to pay for all your replacement linerats.

At least 3 rerolls. You probably can't afford 4, but 2 is marginal.

An apothecary is useful, but probably not essential for the first game.

What does that come to?
2 Storm Vermin = 180
3 Gutter Runners = 240
1 Thrower = 70
5 Linerats = 250
9 FF = 90
3 RR = 180
Total = 1010
Drat, better drop 1 FF, or swap a GR for a linerat.

This only leaves 11 players, so you might have to consider starting with only 2 rerolls and 2 GRs. Whatever you do you'll be short of something.

[Marcus]

My preferred Skav lineup:

2 Storm Vermin
1 Thrower
2 Gutter Runners
7 Linerats
3 Rerolls
6 Fan Factor

Get an apoth fast, then buy a 3rd GR, a 2nd Thrower, and then the 4th GR.

Contrary to what Torg said, a Ratogre can and will hurt you. I recommend not getting one at all under the current rules.

An important point with Skaven is have a development plan. Skaven are the only team who have access to every skills list. This means you can easily turn your team into a complete hodgepodge of skills if you're not careful. Have in mind what mutations and complimenting skills you're interested in and remember that doubles do not always mean take a mutation. Guard on a Linerat or Dodge on a Storm Vermin are always good choices.

Marcus

[CplSaint]

Amen to the Rat Ogre comment - I just can't seem to get it working!
Sailing high in my league, I had one of these beasties that I'd painted up just for show, and put it into my team. Big mistake. The biggest waste of 130,000gc (or whatever) that I ever made. Get ANYTHING other than a Rat Ogre!

The comment on using a Gutter Runner as a substitute thrower is an interesting one. If you're lucky enough to get two doubles on skills rolls, you can get accurate and Big Hand, which combined with the extremely high movement and agility of the Gutter Runner, ought to make him very handy at passing the ball! Passes are so much easier with the additional 2 movement of the gutter runner, which can help to bring down the range boundary. You could also hide the thrower with the ball really deep in your own half, safe from the other team, then sprint right past him and pass it.


However, I still encourage you to get a second thrower, even just as insurance. A death or serious injury to your thrower and your passing play is far less secure. Despite the Gutter Runner's higher agility, it's no compensation for pass and sure hands; the more skilled players you have, the more back up you have. Don't get one right away, but save up for one a couple of games in, once you've got your team settled.
I might try this now... (Or at least I would if I hadn't spent all my fricking money on a big useless lump! )

[Marcus]

No reason not to get a second thrower; at worst he's a linerat with sure hands and pass.

I would advise against building a gutter runner as a thrower. There's too many other useful things to do with them. I often play them in a halfback position though: Have a thrower gather the ball then pass/handoff to the gutter runner who makes the play on the next turn.

Marcus

[Bevan]

No reason not to get a second thrower; at worst he's a linerat with sure hands and pass.

I would advise against building a gutter runner as a thrower. There's too many other useful things to do with them. I often play them in a halfback position though: Have a thrower gather the ball then pass/handoff to the gutter runner who makes the play on the next turn.

Marcus

I totally agree. My remark about having only 1 thrower and using a GR as reserve thrower was only referring to the starting lineup where funds are scarce. I'd get a 2nd thrower before a 4th GR, and I wouldn't develop a GR as a thrower, although Sure Hands is useful in at least 1 GR.

[H. Hund]

2 Storm Vermin
1 Thrower
2 Gutter Runners
7 Linerats
3 Rerolls
6 Fan Factor

I like:
1 Storm Vermin
3 Gutter Runners
8 Linerats

4 Re-Rolls
3 Fan Factor

- But I like speed...

[Darkson]

I think I'll go for the following:

2 Storm vermin
1 Thrower
3 Gutter Runners
6 Linerats
3 RR
3 FF

Comments?

[Dribble Snot]

Hi there - I am just responding to the comments of earlier on the rats of this world. In the league that I m in we have the luxury of picking a team upto 1.3. This enabled me to try the Rat Ogre theory out so far he has been the strength that I have needed in the LoS. Storm Vermin are good because of the block which they start. In the team that I have picked I have gone with

1 Rat Ogre
7 Linos
3 Gutter Runners (one that I do use from time to time to pick up ball and pass)
2 Storm Vermin
1 Thrower

This is based on a 1.3 budget and so far the G.R are so fast it hurts the opposition. All the comments above are relevant too. The only problem I have with the team is the Av of 7 - Ogre/Minotaur fodder especially on the Astrogranite - Ouch!!!!

Anyone got suggestions for me not losing half me team against these psychotic teams. My thoughts were RUNAWAAYYYYY.

[Korhil]

I start Scaven:

2 Storm Vermin 180
1 Gutter Runner 80
1 Thrower 70
7 LineRat 350
4 Re-Roll 240
8 Fan Factor 80

You need 2 Storm Vermin... Block is essential for a starting team.
1 Thrower is enough for a starting team.
1 Gutter Runner, well, Scaven are Fast enough anyway. Early on you want to score with other players, even if its just the Storm Vermin. Gutter Runners can get points easily, they throw a pass on a 2+ between each other. Also, 3 ST2 players on a starting line is useless, all that speed that cant do anything. Taking more LineRats that have more speed than average and ST3 for defense is better.
4 Re-Rolls, you can start with 4 easily in a Scaven team, so you might as well, Scaven pay heaps for Re-Rolls as it is, and you speed most of you cash replacing LineRats.
The Apothecary is your first purchase.
And, like everyone else says, the Rat Ogre is a waste of cash... if your desperate and rich and have 5+ Re-Rolls make him your 16th player.

---Korhil

[Vinz D.]

It depends on what kind of league you'll be playing in. If its a league with lots of elves (I really don't like them, with all respect to the players which are using them) or big teams like orcs, lizards, undead or dwarfs you'll need a massive defense team.

I suggest:
1 rat ogre @ 130k
2 stormvermin @ 180 k
1 throwers @ 140k
1 gutter runner @ 80 k
6 linerats @ 300k
3 re-roll @ 180k
6 FF @ 60k

You'll have to punch your way through their defense and use your gutter runner as your most important player in your team. You could also say: if he's hit, you'll be screwed:D.

=====

For a laughter league (lots of halflings and gobbo's, and yes... their fun to play; but you'll have to admit they're not exactly the best players ever) you can use a totally different team.

2 stormvermin @ 180 k
2 gutter runners @ 160 k
2 throwers @ 140k
7 linerats @ 350k
2 re-rolls @ 120k
5 FF @ 50k

If you have enough money I'd buy another re-roll and the first player would be a rat ogre (cause you'll propably see a lot of treeman, trolls and ogres as well).

Greetz