The ideal sack artist?

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:13 pm

What skills make for an excellent sack artist (a player who steals the ball from an opponent's backfield and scores quickly)?

Obviously the Wardancer combo, leap & strip ball, are a good example but how would you go about developing such a player with the blitzers or special players of other races?

I was thinking I would probably start with with strip ball -> leap/frenzy -> pro

Frenzy would be for non-ag access blitzers to take a second shot at dropping the ball carrier and Pro would be to handle leap RR's and pickup/dodges.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:38 pm

HE Catchers. MV8 ST3. Easy access to Leap. Strip Ball. Dodge. Whatever.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:43 pm

don't overlook tackle in that skill mix as well. ballcarrier types, even on typically bashy teams, can often have dodge. not to mention sure hands. relying on strip ball alone can be problematic in those situations.

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:46 pm

I usually look for the Stripball Tackle combo on any teams blitzers. Having Diving tackle and sidestep can be nice to just in case you don't knock the ball free.

TennBoy · Post by **TennBoy** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:06 pm

I think X said it all.

Possible Wrestle, but you won't be able to pick up the ball and being prone eliminates your TZ.

dwarfrunner · Post by **dwarfrunner** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:07 pm

If you want to go by sheer numbers, Stripball and tackle will be a much better combo than anything else if you want to know a ball loose.

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:55 pm

I guess Stripball & Tackle certainly does make the sack more likely against skilled teams. But would you rather have tackle or a second shot at a ball carrier (Frenzy) against most teams?

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:05 pm

If you also got +ST I'd like Frenzy otherwise NO! It'll get you in more trouble than it'll get you out of I find.

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:40 pm

Snew wrote:If you also got +ST I'd like Frenzy otherwise NO! It'll get you in more trouble than it'll get you out of I find.

This makes me think that, considering the usefulness of horns in this scenario, mutating teams seem to have access to some of the most useful defensive skills--which is amusing considering how hard it is to score with any mutators beside Skaven

.

Considering all the things a sacker has to do after getting the ball on the ground (pick up the ball, dodge, GFI), is Pro worth it as a sort of catch-all?

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:31 pm

If you lower your expectations to 'knocking the ball loose', wrestle on a player with leap is a good way to 'sack' the ball carrier. Add in Tackle/strip Ball and you can break most any cage. If you have a RR to spend when you make the block, the odds are good that you will get the ball free (better if the ball carrier does not have Sure hands)

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:51 pm

Warpstone wrote: Considering all the things a sacker has to do after getting the ball on the ground (pick up the ball, dodge, GFI), is Pro worth it as a sort of catch-all?

Usually a two/three player attack. The sacker's job is to get the ball loose for the guy trailing the play with some ball handling or dodging skill. Third player would be an assist on the initial hit, or canceling out the other sides assist. Of course this all depends on how many friends the ball carrier has in the backfield with him.

In general I hate Pro, never seems to work for me. If the attack is clear enough for you that you can do it early in your turn you should have a TRR to use.

bouncergriim · Post by **bouncergriim** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:31 am

For stunty teams, I go with sidestep and diving tackle. Since the don't have ready access to general skills. I find this is a great combo, especially if you can sneak two SS,DT stunties beside the ball carrier, so that they have to dodge twice and either way they have a DTer beside them.

On this note, which do you think would be better for a ball stripping skink on doubles after SS and DT: shadowing or block?

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:33 am

Xtreme wrote:
In general I hate Pro, never seems to work for me. If the attack is clear enough for you that you can do it early in your turn you should have a TRR to use.

I'm probably one of about 4 people around here who miss the days when you could use pro on arm/inj rolls. Then you could alway be sure to use it at SOME point during most players' turns...

And I play the finesse teams! What's that about?

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:32 pm

Xtreme wrote:
Warpstone wrote: Considering all the things a sacker has to do after getting the ball on the ground (pick up the ball, dodge, GFI), is Pro worth it as a sort of catch-all?
Usually a two/three player attack. The sacker's job is to get the ball loose for the guy trailing the play with some ball handling or dodging skill. Third player would be an assist on the initial hit, or canceling out the other sides assist. Of course this all depends on how many friends the ball carrier has in the backfield with him.

In general I hate Pro, never seems to work for me. If the attack is clear enough for you that you can do it early in your turn you should have a TRR to use.

Yes, if you are a slower, bashy team, you don't need to pick-up the ball right away. Get the ball loose, then put as many TZs around the ball as you can. Foul the fallen ball carrier if possible. Get tackle, DT, shadowing, etc... players around there as well to avoid those high AG players from sneaking-in, getting the ball, then running away.

I like to do this with my Skaven team. One GR with block, dauntless, tackle. Then another 1 or two with block, sidestep and shadowing to follow-up. And the kick skill on a linerat so that you can kick the ball in a spot where the ball retriever won't be able to get much support.

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:33 pm

bouncergriim wrote:On this note, which do you think would be better for a ball stripping skink on doubles after SS and DT: shadowing or block?

Probably shadowing as a ST2 skink is less likely to be blitzing rather than marking the ball carrier. I think one of the upshots of the annoying skill thread was that passive rolls are particularly effective for foiling your opponent's plans.