In need of some sound tactical advice for my Orcs

[grishmack]

Ok, so here goes.

I recently got introduced to playing blood bowl online, even though i have the table top version i never really got round to playing it (i cant leave fantasy alone) and to be honest i suck real bad at BB. I started an orc team off, as 1: i play them in fantasy and 2: i were told they were idiot friendly However, 7 games in i am 0/3/4 - with the defeats being 3-0 4-0 4-0 and 4-0 (it was this only the 2nd turn into the 2nd half). So as you can see, i am in dire need of some tactics - formations in order to try and revive some interest in this game, as i am seriously losing interest, fast!

Ive been told that Orcs are all about bashing your way through you opponent, but i never seem to be able to do it, i can never cause enough damage to be able to give myself an advantage. On Defence, i can never hold the opposition off for mor than 2 turns, 3 if there a slow moving team, and on offence i rarely get the ball out of my own half.

I currently have 4 Black Orc Blockers, 4 Blitzers, 3 linemen and 2 throwers. So can anybody save me? or is it impossible for me to rekindle my interest? Any advice would be great and very appreciated.

Cheers

Grish

[TuernRedvenom]

I assume you are playing on FUMBBL. They have a special division for newcomers to the game called Academy where you can play more experienced coaches which will tell you what you're doing wrong. If you're just starting out the game can be really tough if you're playing more experienced coaches. Don't give up, you'll catch on soon enough.

Some important points.
* The game is all about risk management. Every turn you would like to take as many actions as possible. This means you have to do the safe stuff first. The safest action is moving a player without dodging or going for it, so often you will want to move your free players first. Just to put things into perspective, in my book any action that has 1 in 6 chances (including reroll) of failing is a risky one (even 1 in 9 is risky). You either work around these or take these later in your turn when it doesn't matter so much anymore whether you get a turnover. Always try to think about the odds. Don't start your turn with a 4+ dodge for example (unless there's no other way).
* Always play for the ball. Your first objective should always be keeping it safe when you have it and getting to it when you don't. Always, always, always, always protect your ball carrier (do a search for "cage tactics"). It is better to go slow and steady then fast and taking risks here. With orcs, run the ball, don't pass it. Many beginners will forget about this in an attempt to bash their opponent down.
* keep your guys together, especially on offence. This is true for all bashy teams, keeping your guys close together makes it harder for the opponent to outbash you as teammates can support each other with assists and taking opposing assists away.
* mind your tackle zones. Especially on defence you want to make sure your opponent can't simply run through your line without dodging. Try to keep your line straigth when stretched, as a staggered line is easier to dodge through.

But the best way to learn is to play. Just take it on the chin and ask your opponent after the game (or during) what you are doing wrong and where you can improve. Stick with it and you'll start winning sooner or later.

[Kyrel]

First off I don't play Blood Bowl online, so the following is based on experience from the boardgame version.

You write that you have been told that the Orcs are a bashing team that will beat their way through the opposition to the endzone. I both agree and disagree with this discription.

While it is true that Orcs can normally go into a 16 turn mass fight and still manage to emerge with something resembling a team at the end of the game, I generally don't like to try and play them this way. The reason is that as I see it, Orcs have the stamina (AV9 for most of the team!) to fight with the best of them, but to win a fight, you really need to take out the opposition. If you can't do that, then the only thing you have is a slugfest where the teams trade punches. It might be entertaining for a while, but you don't move the ball and score touchdowns that way.

As was pointed out above, Orcs are a RUNNING team, and IMO they do this well. You may not have dedicated Catchers, and no AG4, but you do have AG3, MA6, AV9 Blitzers. And you got 4 of them. Send these guys down the opponent's half with the ball, and let them support and protect eachother, and then it is technically possible for an Orc team to score a 2 turn TD.

Personally I prefer to use Black Orcs to punch holes in the opposing line, which can then be exploited by my Blitzers. You don't even need to take the opponent out. A simple push back is often enough to make a hole, and ST4 is often good at ensuring this.

Another thing to considder is that while your Linemen aren't really good at anything, they do one thing extremely well. They stick around. With AV9 these guys will often take a lot of punishment before they have to be carried off the pitch, and for this reason alone they can often hold a line for a turn or three, which can be enough for you to score a TD with your Blitzers.

Orc Throwers aren't all that impressive, but once they get a few skills, they aren't terrible either. You might never become proficient at the Long Bomb range, but Quick and Short Pass range is quite resonable.

With regards to defence, then as pointed out, you have to keep your tacklezones in mind. Your defensive lineup also have to be modified to suit the opponent. A single line might allow you to cover the entire bredth of the field with tacklezones, but if the opponent is faster than you and manage to either make a hole, leap over, or otherwise get past it, then you will be in trouble, if your players can't run fast enough to catch up with the "intruder". Thus fewer players in the front line, and a number of players further back can be the way to go. But again, this all depends on the opponent and the specific situation.

Good luck, and don't give up yet. You might also want to considder trying to play a few games on a regular board.


/Kyrel

[Richy]

Tuern is right - it's all about risk management. Do risk-free moves first, then other things. With orcs you should be looking to line up 2 dice blocks most of the time. Although black orcs are stronger, your blitzers are more reliable for blocking at the outset if you can get the assists (as they have block). Don't be fooled into thinking that orc throwers should be throwing the ball - stick to hand-offs if you can. If you're yearning to throw long-bombs you need to switch teams.

Think about the consequences if an action fails - for example, if you're sending someone to pick up the ball, think about what will happen if he fails. It may be a good idea to move another player next to the ball first to make it trickier for your opponent to waltz in and grab the ball if you drop it.

How many re-rolls do you have? With orcs you need at least 3, preferably 4. Think about it before you use them - don't think that you have to reroll every failed roll until you run out of rerolls. Sometimes it's better to let someone go down and save the reroll for later.

This site: http://www.hallofgalleries.com/def.php (all in French) has some offensive and defensive set-ups which you might find useful.

Like Tuern says, on offence, a standard (and fairly easy) tactic is caging the ball. Search this site for topics on cages and you should be able to find various how-tos.

[grishmack]

Yeah FUMBBL is what im playing dont know if im aloud to link to my team but here it is. (if this is not allowed please delete it i dont want to get banned already ) http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=321893

[DoubleSkulls]

Rule Nine - Never start you turn with an action with more than a 1/36 chance of failure unless
1) You have a reroll and are prepared to use it
2) You have no choice

BB is about maximising the value of your actions against the value of your opponents.

Rule Fifteen: When trying to bash you have to control the ball. If you have the ball your opponent has to engage you to try and get it back. If you let them have the ball they won't let you hit them.

[voyagers_uk]

Ian is this a published set of rules? or are you just being enigmatic...!

[DoubleSkulls]

It's a secret young one

[voyagers_uk]

"young one" , well that's you to the top of the nice people of the day list.

[TennBoy]

girshmack try and prefect protecting the ball carrier and caging. Wtih a slow team your best defense is a sloooooooooow moving offense. Don't try and score as quick as possible try and drag each of your drives out as long as possible. If you only get 2 squares closer to the EZ a turn so be it, (8 x 2 = 16, its only about 13 squares to the EZ from the scum, meaning Touchdown Orcs).

When choosing skills (choose them in this order, may very if you have a double role or stat bump)

Black Orcs: Block, Guard or MB, Break Tackle

Blitzers (Ball Carrier): Sure Hands, (give him Dodge or Catch on doubles)

Blitzers (2 blockers): Guard, Stand Firm or MB, Tackle (dodge on any doubles)

Blitzer (Sacker): Strip Ball, Tackle, Wrestle (dodge on any doubles)

Lineorcs: Block (Guard on Doubles)

Thrower: Kick-off return, Block, Accurate

Gobbo: Side Step, Diving Tackle (Block, Sure Hands, or Guard on doubles depending how you use him) I like to use my Gobbos to sneak in and give or take away assists. If he dies oh well, I'm out 40K.

[kano]

Just for arguements sake, Wrestle and Kick Off return cannot be taken on FUMBBL since it is LRB4. And Stand Firm requires a doubles roll in LRB4 also. I like Stand Firm on Black Orcs on doubles in LRB4 because it also works if you need to dodge him somewhere else, he wont go down if he fails. ST4 and Stand Firm work really well holding the cage, especially in LRB4 since there is nothing to counter Stand Firm (Juggernaut in LRB5).

Also, take Strong Arm on doubles for your thrower. It is really awesome since Orcs rarely throw the ball any longer than a Short Pass anways, it pretty much makes 90% of their passes count as Quick Pass.

Orcs on FUMMBL rarely get games against non-bashing teams since they are so strong. You may want to use your thrower as the ball carrier since he has Sure Hands already anyways, and use your other blitzer to bash with the other Blitzers and the Black Orcs. Also if the thrower gets in trouble, he has a built-in reroll (Pass) to move the ball to a safer location if he gets in trouble.

I like using Big Guys (some coaches dont since they can be a liability). If you do, on a normal roll take Guard. Big guys are best used to assist other players, and they can help you even without activating them. If you are going to block with him, try to do it toward the end of your turn if possible. Big Guys cant use team RR, so if he screws up your turn is over. Take Block on him for doubles roll, 2nd doubles I would take Pro. Take any stat ups you get on him except AG.

Hope this helps. Good luck on FUMBBL. Also, Kick and Dirty Player are very good skills in LRB4. I would reccommend getting one of each of these on a lineman.

[TennBoy]

Take any stat ups you get on him except AG.

Maybe, take the extra MV increase, but unless you plan on making a multi-blocker I won't take any other stat increase. I would rather have the double roll myself.

But kano is right Dirty Player is stupid nasty in LRB4 give it to your lineorcs and maybe a gobbo on doubles

[kano]

Kick also because of Bad Kick on the kickoff table is I belive the 3rd most common result. It was changed to High Kick in LRB5 which really cuts down on the touchbacks.

It is kind of personal preference on the +ST on the troll. I like the +ST because once you get Guard on him, those assists are a lot harder to move when you are ST6, basicallly turns him into a Really Stupid Treeman. Then when you set up your formation, with 1 assist for your troll, you can get a 3d block with him on any ST3 player, or a 2d block on 2 ST3 guys if you have Multiblock. Plus in LRB4 you can Multi-Block and Blitz at the same time, so dont forget about that as well. That is if you are willing to risk your blitz on a big guy.......

If the roll was double 5's and the choice was Block or Movement, I would definitely take Block.

[TennBoy]

If the roll was double 5's and the choice was Block or Movement, I would definitely take Block

I would definitely agree with this statement.

[Kheldar]

Hi Grishmack,

were do you come from. If we are in the same timezone (more or less), we could do a practise match on fumbbl. I would give you some hints to improve your play if you wont. But be aware. Some people say I am a bit harsh sometimes