Wrestle or Fend instead of block or tackle?

[Robotorz]

In my league most of us are starting new as our new coaches where somewhat depressed by the fact that they could either play against each other with their TR 120 Teams or play the older teams with TR 180+++.

Now many players are also rethinking their average skill-choices and many players prefare "finesse" teams like Elves, Skaven and so on.

To get to the point:
We had a discussion on what skills would be wise to give to players on the first skill (assuming no doubles or stat increase).

Some coaches said that they are going full out on wrestle with their lineman and leave the blitzing for their Blitzers. The reasons they had for this where that with elves you dont need block that often as you only secure your ballplayer in a pocket and block would only help on offence (where most finese teams dont have real problems).

On the other hand they said if you need something on offence than thats a skill that brings down a player to avoid loads of dodges so wrestle would be nice in this cases.

On defence on the other hand block isnt as good as fend as you will have to dodge back one square while letting the opponent advance much faster opposit to fending their follow-ups off.
While not being such a great skill on defence they said that wrestle does the same as block when being blocked as it only reduces the chance to be injured.

I think their arguments are right to some extend but as far as I am concerned their player-development would be slower with this method as they would have less chances on injuring other players and especialy their team would suffer from not having block actualy even more on offence then they addmit.

Having block on your "pocket-players" (those that form the cage) would be at least for me a necessity to avoid take-downs and furthermore to take down the opposition as well = reduce the blocks your teams recive.

evenmore I think they are totaly ignoring the fact that they will face a lot of dodge/ag4 players and therefore NEED at least some tackle players to prevent too easy dodges past their lines.

Any thoughts on this?

[TennBoy]

I just don't like wrestle on anyone other than my sackers, and only after they have stripball and tackle.

To me Block is a much better skill for lineman than Wrestle. If the opposition doesn't have block, you get to thump them and their turns over. If they do, big whoop, you both stand there looking at each other.

With Wrestle, they still gets the rest of their turn to have one of their players march across the field and kick your player in the head(unless the guy that just went down had the ball, of course).

[Snew]

To add to that I'd only take Fend after I had Block and Dodge. then I'd probably rather have something else instead so I don't see me taking a bunch of Fend. Come to think if it I'd rather have Side Step before Fend too so that makes it a 4th skill and I've never had a 4-skill player.

[Joemanji]

IMO this discussion only serves to highlight the dominance of a small clique of skills (Block, Dodge, Guard etc). Fend in particular is a fantastic skill and fits perfectly into my personal playing style. But it is not quite good enough to be taken over Block, which means it will probably always be a marginal skill.

The teams that would make most use of this are those linemen don't have ST or AG skill access. I would love to have Fend on all my Human linemen. But you need Block to avoid those turnovers, and two-skill linemen don't come along that often. Positionals are always going to have better skills to pick.

Split up Block and Dodge.

[TennBoy]

Split up Block and Dodge.

I'd agree if its AG4 lineman, if not just block\ tackle.

[Joemanji]

Split up Block and Dodge.

I'd agree if its AG4 lineman, if not just block\ tackle.

Eh? I meant that the Block and Dodge skills should be split up into their separate components.

[Warpstone]

IMO this discussion only serves to highlight the dominance of a small clique of skills (Block, Dodge, Guard etc). Fend in particular is a fantastic skill and fits perfectly into my personal playing style. But it is not quite good enough to be taken over Block, which means it will probably always be a marginal skill.

Exactly, fend is good, but blodge is better. BTW, this is why the Amazonian MBBL is interesting.

Yet, the neat part about the overwhelming usefulness of Block, dodge etc. is that the occasional player who you equip with fend/wrestle can really catch your opponent flat-footed. So, going back to Robotorz's post, rethinking standard skill choices is probably not wise across the board, but it is a good idea for one to two of your players in order to throw a change-up at your opponents.

[datalorex]

IMO this discussion only serves to highlight the dominance of a small clique of skills (Block, Dodge, Guard etc). Fend in particular is a fantastic skill and fits perfectly into my personal playing style. But it is not quite good enough to be taken over Block, which means it will probably always be a marginal skill.

I wish some of the second tier skills cost less so that it would make it tempting to take them.

[Snew]

but it is a good idea for one to two of your players in order to throw a change-up at your opponents.

You know, every time I try something like this, he's always clear on the other side of the board when I would have like him to be the one use/hit/whatever.

I wish some of the second tier skills cost less so that it would make it tempting to take them.

That's a neat idea.

[Grumbledook]

You know, every time I try something like this, he's always clear on the other side of the board when I would have like him to be the one use/hit/whatever.

That is just bad coaching snew!

[Warpstone]

IMO this discussion only serves to highlight the dominance of a small clique of skills (Block, Dodge, Guard etc). Fend in particular is a fantastic skill and fits perfectly into my personal playing style. But it is not quite good enough to be taken over Block, which means it will probably always be a marginal skill.

I wish some of the second tier skills cost less so that it would make it tempting to take them.

Maybe it would help, but I fear that going that route would bring us right back to the trait/skill dog's breakfast of exceptions that was LRB4's skill system.

Secondary skills may get the shaft, but that's the cost of being unique I suppose. Plenty of athletes manage to have lengthy careers even though they have poor fundamental skills which they make up for with unique talents:

David Beckham - unique deadball skills.
Robbie Savage - unique ability to draw yellow cards and piss off everyone
Michael Owen - unique ability to get injured.

[Razzkel]

Wrestle/Fend combo is good for slowing down cages. Not much use against agility teams. On my dark elf team the witch elves are going wrestle/fend .. jump up is great for that combo. Well that and piling on

[TennBoy]

Wrestle/Fend combo is good for slowing down cages. Not much use against agility teams. On my dark elf team the witch elves are going wrestle/fend .. jump up is great for that combo. Well that and piling on

Gee, two skills that put them on their backs throughout the opponents turn with Wrestle and Pile On, Do they also Blow Mighty

Seriously, I don't see your Witch Elves living long enough to get three skills when two of them place her on her back.

[Snew]

Wrestle/Fend combo is good for slowing down cages. Not much use against agility teams. On my dark elf team the witch elves are going wrestle/fend .. jump up is great for that combo. Well that and piling on

Gee, two skills that put them on their backs throughout the opponents turn with Wrestle and Pile On, Do they also Blow Mighty

Seriously, I don't see your Witch Elves living long enough to get three skills when two of them place her on her back.

My thought was that I wished I played with people like that.