Wood Elf defense against St4 Bull Centaur

dwarfrunner · Post by **dwarfrunner** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:40 pm

I just played this game, and lost. Wondering how I should have played. My big issue was his ball carrier was a ST4 Block, sure hands Bull Centaur. He made the cage and walked down the field to score on turn 8 (I had scored in two turns). Then recieved in the second half and did the same thing.

There was very little to nothing I could do. I slowed him down well, but he just kept moving 1-2 squares per turn, and eventually got a TD. I managed to get to the ball carrier twice, but both times failed to knock over, and with sure hands strip ball was pointless. The only time he left him box and was forced to dodge was on the final turn of the half, and he succeeded the dodge and just walked into the endzone.

How do I stop him, with the chaos dwarfs around him, it was hard to get him in a position where he was unprotected. I just had to watch him do his thing, and hope he made a mistake.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:31 pm

Make sure he can only advance one square per turn, and pick on Hobgobs to try and get his numbers down.

dwarfrunner · Post by **dwarfrunner** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:47 pm

Yeah, thats kinda what I figured. I did an okay job of dwindling his numbers, but never had more than 3 guys off the pitch at one moment. I should also mention he had Hthark as an inducement because one of his BC was missing the game, which made my job that much more difficult. I couldnt break armour to save my life, so that made it more difficult.

I guess I did an okay job against him. I just kept wondering if I should let him score, but then he would just stall anyways, this way I was hoping he would run out of turns. Alas that was not the case.

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:16 pm

It's hard once he already gets the cage going. Best I can think of is to disengage and threaten on all sides of the cage from 1 square away. Basically, force him to keep blitzing while you try to maneuver enough lineman into place take a shot at the cage after two-three turns of waiting him out.

When you do strike, make your first attack on the cage with linemen and foul the crap out of the dwarf once you get him down, then go after him with your wardancer on the next turn.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:52 pm

Get kick on a lineman and try to prevent the cage from forming in the first place. And if you can force him to use up a few turns to really form the cage and start to move forward, then you have less turns to slow-down the cage, makes it easier for you.

A Wrestle, Dauntless, Leaping Elf would have been useful to try to get the ball carrier down, but the odds still aren't that great.

dwarfrunner · Post by **dwarfrunner** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:09 pm

My tactic of trying to get the ball carrier didn't work so well, but I was trying to get a hole for my wardancer to get through, I should have been trying to break his cage down THEN attack the ball carrier on a seperate turn. I spent to much time positioning for the one turn blitz, drop ball tactic, that I probably missed dozens of opporunities to reduce his numbers more.

Cramy, I have kick on one of my players. Ironically every kick I did (which was only two) ended within afew squares of his ball carrier, that part I had no control over. He even failed a pick up one turn, and I managed to get a couple of guys behind his LOS, but wasn't positioned properly, so he made another cage. That part I wish I had played differently. Plus he had hobos back, and left them behind as secondary support, so his MV9 BC had no problem getting into the necessary position (MV6 + Sure Feet/Sprint = fast immovable object).

dwarfrunner · Post by **dwarfrunner** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:14 pm

The leaping, Dauntless, Wrestle WD is a really expensive target. Once he does that move once he would be fouled into oblivion, and against CD with their expendable hobos, he was fouling me enough as is, thank god he failed lots, but no ejections.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:16 pm

Yeah, I really don't recommend Wrestle on a WD. It's wasting some of their better talents, and indeed making them a HUGE foul bait that you have conveniently placed prone for your opponent.

Wrestle is a good skill on a line elf with leap, but don't give it to a Wardancer.

dwarfrunner · Post by **dwarfrunner** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:16 pm

My current plan for my one WD (since my other one is already developed and a long ways from his next skill) is Block, Dodge, Leap, Strip Ball, and eventually Side Step and Juggernaut (not sure which first). That will be the super combo to carry my team. Assuming the ball carrier does not have Sure Hands, anything but skulls and that ball is popping lose MMUUAAAHHHHAHAHAHAH

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:19 pm

Well, since Juggernaut requires doubles for him, you can't really plan WHEN to give it to them. I do have one though and he is all he's cracked up to be. I have a Witch elf with it too, it's even better on them because of the Frenzy synergy. Nasty.

Other skills to consider for Wardancers, besides the good ones you've mentioned, include Tackle, Shadow, and Dauntless. A Dauntless WD would have been just the thing against that Bull Centaur you've been complaining about.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:00 pm

dwarfrunner wrote:My current plan for my one WD (since my other one is already developed and a long ways from his next skill) is Block, Dodge, Leap, Strip Ball, and eventually Side Step and Juggernaut (not sure which first). That will be the super combo to carry my team. Assuming the ball carrier does not have Sure Hands, anything but skulls and that ball is popping lose MMUUAAAHHHHAHAHAHAH

I would value Wrestle or Tackle over Juggernaut any day.

On a both down result, the ball is popped loose with both Wrestle and Juggs, but the former also puts the ball carrier prone, probably meaning one less TZ on the pickup.

Tackle give you options against those pesky Sure Hands blodgers, and gives your WD something to do if the other one leaps into the cage.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:46 am

dwarfrunner wrote:The leaping, Dauntless, Wrestle WD is a really expensive target. Once he does that move once he would be fouled into oblivion, and against CD with their expendable hobos, he was fouling me enough as is, thank god he failed lots, but no ejections.

Agreed, which is why I said Elf, not WD. The Linos would be my pick for such a combination of skills. But not sure I would actually do it. It's a pretty specialized player.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:22 am

Don't score in 2 turns when you kick. If you take 4 turns then its much much harder for him to accept moving the cage 1~2 squares a turn since he knows he won't score twice in the next half - so he has to play hurry up offence which will give you many more opportunities to cause the vital turnover.

Plus all the other stuff about not letting the cage form.

If it does sidestep is really good for annoying cages.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:25 am

Oh and if you rely on leaping strip ball war dancers you will struggle because sooner or later everyone in the league will have sure hands, block and maybe dodge, ball carriers. Then they'll back it up with guards so you can't even get the 1 dice blocks.

TennBoy · Post by **TennBoy** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:05 pm

It's hard once he already gets the cage going. Best I can think of is to disengage and threaten on all sides of the cage from 1 square away. Basically, force him to keep blitzing while you try to maneuver enough lineman into place take a shot at the cage after two-three turns of waiting him out.

Front and sides I would agree with this, But have some linemen move next to the guys at the rear of his cage (preferably next to those CD, so he has a harder time dodging away). This makes him decide to either leave the guys behind as the cage moves forward, dodge out of your TZ (hopefully failing), use his blitz action to knock your guy off and continue with the cage ( meaning he can only move the cage one square forward)