Talk Fantasy Football

I had my rookie catcher roll boxcars for his first skill...of course I took the Strength increase...At 8 4 4 7, he's basically a vampire.

What's the best way to develop him now? I have two highly skilled regular catchers (one with blodge, NoS, and strip ball, the other with blodge, sure feet, and pass block), and a decent smattering of skills everywhere else on throwers, blitzers, and lineelves.

Should I make him my halfback?...fullback?...defender extrordinaire?

Your team won't need extra help scoring, so you want to give defensive skills mostly. Obviously, I think without question you want Block first and foremost, both to increase effectiveness and keep the guy alive.

After that, it depends on your league and what you want to do with him, as well as your own style.

I think what'd I do would be to give him Leap, allowing him to attack the ballcarrier in a cage. Other skills could make a lot of sense, as well, such as Frenzy or Tackle.

Another fun one to think about after Block would be Shadow. You can use him to mark other people's catchers or scorers or whatver. At MA8, he's likely to at least comparable to whoever he's against, if not better, and at ST4 they won't be able to easily just block you away either. If you do that, then I'd definitely take Side Step for the 3rd skill, that would be a total pain in the arse.

I'll agree with wesley about leap and block. Personally I'd give him leap first, cage breaking is hard to do with high elves.

Normally I give leap to one of my blitzers (since they start with block) with STR 3 they are usually doing a 1 dice blitz which fails (skull) 1 in 6 times.

but with STR4 you will be able to leap in and make 2 dice blocks (most of the time) even without block that fails on a 1 in 9; better odds than my blitzer already. Add block later and it becomes a 1/36 failure.

I wouldn't leap into a cage with no Block like that...regardless of the odds of success. Because then on your opponent's turn, this guy is surrounded by baddies who want to take his head off, and without Block, they're that much more likely to do it. Then suddenly your really nice rare unique player is dead. Block first.

8447 Catch Block is still a pretty solid statline. No point risking it all unnecessarily and rushing to get Leap.

Jon93y wrote:I had my rookie catcher roll boxcars for his first skill...of course I took the Strength increase...At 8 4 4 7, he's basically a vampire.

What's the best way to develop him now? I have two highly skilled regular catchers (one with blodge, NoS, and strip ball, the other with blodge, sure feet, and pass block), and a decent smattering of skills everywhere else on throwers, blitzers, and lineelves.

Should I make him my halfback?...fullback?...defender extrordinaire?

First, you are SOOOO lucky! I'd give him Block. It's more useful than leap as you use it on offense and defense. And with it, you'll skills up quicker than with Leap.

wesleytj wrote:I wouldn't leap into a cage with no Block like that...regardless of the odds of success. Because then on your opponent's turn, this guy is surrounded by baddies who want to take his head off, and without Block, they're that much more likely to do it. Then suddenly your really nice rare unique player is dead. Block first.

No guts, no glory

Elves struggle on defence enough that I think it'd be worth the risk. Granted I'm risking a 120k AV8 piece rather than a 140k AV7 piece, so I see your point.

Granted with STR 4 it'll be that much harder to get a 2 dice block against him since you likely will have moved in support to cancel his cage assists anyway. One of the advatages of that High Elf armour is they can afford to mark opponets and have a decent shot at surviving it. (not a strategy I'd normally recommend unless you are trying to crack a cage or set up a TD though, first rule for elves, never let them hit you for free)

One word: block.

Block

Block first, Dodge next then Tackle or Frenzy, doubles -> Mighty Blow. I wouldn't take leap on a STR 4 AG 4 AV 7 high elf player. This guy will attract your opponents attention, which is great, so try to make it hard to remove him from the pitch first, then increase his hitting power. Making leaps on 3+ with a player with so much potential but so little armour will mean he won't last long. For Wood Elves I think this can be good: rock hard and die young, but high elves have more durable linemen and aren't affected as much by opponents cage and grind tactics (which would be where leap comes in great). So keep it simple: keep him on the pitch and use him to take apart the cage bit by bit instead of leaping in there and risk getting killed.

yep ... IMO there is only one choice: Block!

Apologies for the slight derail here but I've got a similar decision coming up soon on a similar type of player for the team- my Norse Runner got +1 ST for his first skill, and I'm not sure where to take him next.

Obviously he's already got block so should I just give him dodge next? Only thing about that is that I'm trying to come up with a 'non-ball carrier' type role so he doesn't end up being an SPP hog. Any more exotic ideas?

But on the other hand our league is pretty bashy (2x chaos, orcs, lizardmen, necros with a couple of elf teams) with a history of putting bounties on the heads of good stat increase players (my two AG5 gutter runners last season were hunted mercilessly!) so maybe anything that keeps him alive a bit longer is going to be good!

tomlloyd wrote:Apologies for the slight derail here but I've got a similar decision coming up soon on a similar type of player for the team- my Norse Runner got +1 ST for his first skill, and I'm not sure where to take him next.

Dodge, Side Step, Tackle, Diving Tackle is what I would do. Again, protecting such a valuable player is important so dodge first. But don't get tempted to do a lot of dodges with him, it's mainly for protection! Side Step because it's a great AG skill (especially on a str 4 player) and you don't have many players with regular access to it on the squad. Tackle because he's fast and strong and thus the ideal receiver hunter, plus it combines well with side step. For doubles get Mighty Blow. Str 4 means he'll throw a lot of blocks -> make 'em count!

edit: as for diving tackle, many players don't take it as they think leaving your player prone invites him to be fouled. That reasoning is kinda flawed as:
1) if you do use the skill it will most likely cause a turnover so they can't foul you
2) you will only very rarely actually go prone to use the skill. This doesn't mean the skill is near useless. It just means that most opponents will stay put rather then risking a 4+ (or worse) dodge roll. My dark elf team has a blodge, sidestep, diving tackle blitzer that has never actually used diving tackle yet but it has been incredibly helpfull in every game so far!

TuernRedvenom wrote:Dodge, Side Step, Tackle, Diving Tackle is what I would do.

Thanks, I like this, Side Step in particular. I probably wouldn't have considered tackle but a receiver killer is actually a really good role for this guy, good combination of making best use of his strength advantage over his targets but without putting such a valuable player in unnecessarily dangerous positions.

Thanks for the replies...Looking back, I think I would have rephrased my question. I'm going to take block for the next skill, that's basically a given. I suppose I'd really like some options on how exactly to develop him (assuming he survives of course ). I'm in a pretty bashy league...chaos, norse, couple of orc teams, nurgle, ogre and delf...oh, and a nasty little goblin team that excels at collecting bounties.

There are some fine ways to turn this guy into a great defender...but what's the most important after block?

Dodge-will help him stay alive
Leap-Dunno if I want to mix it up too much with that 7 AV, but good skill
Strip Ball-reliable on a 1 die block, deadly on a 2 die
Frenzy-8 MA Frenzy can do some real damage, but I gotta watch the assists on the follow up
Sidestep-always annoying, and can keep him base to base with ballcarrier
Shadowing-reliable on 8 MA, but wasted on this particular player?
Pass Block-two chances to intercept on a 5+, or move into thrower's TZ

Myriad of options, and to be honest, the way this team looks, I don't think he'll garner THAT much attention, especially if I skill him up defensively...

Gah...sorry, long post! Thoughts boys?

That's a pretty solid summary Jon...

Let's go through your comments for each skill:

>>Dodge-will help him stay alive<<

Boring but effective, and yes, it will help keep him alive.

>>Leap-Dunno if I want to mix it up too much with that 7 AV, but good skill <<

It's how a Wardancer operates every day. If you're averse to that sort of risk, though, then so be it. The potential reward is pretty immense though, an AG4 cage buster is great, and all kinds of uses on offense as well. As always, it comes down to your play style.

>>Strip Ball-reliable on a 1 die block, deadly on a 2 die <<

I would only do this if you commit yourself to taking Leap too, otherwise it's tough to get where you can use it effectively.

>>Frenzy-8 MA Frenzy can do some real damage, but I gotta watch the assists on the follow up <<

Well, the ST4 helps negate that concern some, but yes, with ANY Frenzy player, you always have to plan BOTH blocks to make it a manageable exercise.

>>Sidestep-always annoying, and can keep him base to base with ballcarrier <<

Precisely. Not really much to add there, except that it has great synergy with a skill like Shadow or Tackle because they can't just block you away reliably.

>>Shadowing-reliable on 8 MA, but wasted on this particular player? <<

I don't think it's wasted on this guy at all. Think of it this way...why do you never see Shadow on a Gutter Runner? With MA9 and AG4, you'd think it would be a natural choice, right? The reason it that people will just clobber the Gutter Runner standing next to them, something they probably wanted to do anyway, and then the Shadow is meaningless.

With a guy who's ST4, it's not nearly that easy. It puts the opponent into a real bind, sort of the "lesser of two evils" situation. Generally when you're a catcher/runner/scorer type, and you're standing next to a big ST4 guy, your natural instinct, all else equal, is to just dodge away, right? But if the guy has similar MA and Shadow, suddenly that's not quite so easy or clear cut.

>>Pass Block-two chances to intercept on a 5+, or move into thrower's TZ <<

Another great skill to use in tandem with something like Shadow, Tackle, and/or Diving Tackle here. Attach yourself to the catcher, and then don't let them get away. The shot at an INT is just gravy.