Talk Fantasy Football

I´ll be playing next weekend in a TV 110 tournament with Orcs. My lineup has one Thrower, I don´t want to take second one because I like having lot´s of RR for the BOBs (my lineup is 4 x Blitzer, 4 x BOB, Thrower, Goblin, 2 x Lineman, 4 x RR, 1 x FF).

I expect a lot of agilty teams, so chances are that I may play against Wood Elves who definetely will have Strip Ball and maybe Kick.

That´s why I´m thinking about giving a Blitzer Sure Hands to ensure that after the kick-off I have the ball in the hands of a player with Sure Handsl. If not that can be disastrous if the Wood Elf coach plays smart and has average/good dice rolls.

I can choose a skill before the game but after knowing the opponents race so I can react to Woodies.

Two players can better control the field, especially when the opponent has Kick. As for the other skills I plan to take a mix of Guard and Block.

So, is that a good choice, Sure Hands on the Blitzer? I´d only take it when I play Woodies because of the Strip Ball/Leap combo. Against other teams I wouldn´t do it.

How many skills do you get, and what's the structure? Just one? A Blitzer with Tackle sounds more practical. Several? Maybe, but... hmmm.

The first thing you should get is a Blitzer with Tackle. Wood Elves at 110 have 2 Wardancers for sure and a reasonable chance to have 1 or 2 Catchers. Other high priorities are Block on Black Orcs (if you give Block to 2 Black Orcs, they'll be a lot more reliable so you can sell back a re-roll and a point of FF and buy yourself a Thrower; that way, you've got 13 players and can foul with impunity, which against WEs is nice). If that doesn't do it, take a Thrower with Leader and save the money that way. If you are really worried about Strip Ball and dead-set on starting with one Thrower (or if your purchases are already set), then either take a Blitzer with SH, or take a Blitzer with Tackle, try to get the ball to the Thrower until you can break away/score, and FOUL FOUL FOUL!

If you've got to keep this team against other opponents, Guard is a good idea; against Woodies, one Guard guy is more than enough to help one of your other BOBs plant a tree (show you care); after all, you don't need Guard if there's no-one around to pull your guy off, and BOBs are very good at getting rid of pull-offs all on their own (in fact, that and the fact that an opponent has to get two assists on them, are the only things that make them better than a Zombie... oh, and S access).

If you have more than 4 or 5 skills available, a Dirty Player lino isn't so bad an idea; if you can trade him for a Wardancer on turn 2 (esp. if you've got 13 guys), it's totally worth it. Kick is a fine skill, but it's less useful against Wood Elves, who can usually get the ball from anywhere (not to say it isn't good, just that it's a lower pick here than it would be otherwise). A second Blitzer with Tackle is totally worth it. If you and your opponent get a lot of skills, Wood Elves have the opportunity to take all kinds of annoying Side Step tricks (4 guys with Side Step are very hard to get past, esp. if 2 of them are Blodgers), so Grab on a Blitzer may be worthwhile. Even if he has no Side Step, Grab can sometimes let you set up another bite at a missed block or open an avenue to put a TZ somewhere your opponent can't handle.

Pick whatever skills you want. I like Blocking/CAS skills. MB on Blitzers, Block on BOBs. I prefer not to worry about something that only one guy on one team may have. Sure Hands is a good skill for a Blitzer but you already have a thrower, maybe take Block on him. If you face a Strip Ball guy just keep it in his hands till the SB guy is gone then play like normal. Before doing anything else make every block you can get. Every one. Don't skip this step. It's important.

I'd worry more about Juggernaught if I were you. It changes a lot more than just putting the ball on the ground, though is will do that as well.

@mattgslater: I get one skill before every game, so a total of six skills, max one per player.

Tackle is the other choice I´m contemplating when playing against Woodies (or another team that is likely to have Blodge), that or Sure Hands on a Blitzer or Block on a Thower. Don´t know what´s the better choice because the Thrower isn´t very fast, with Kick the ball could be out of reach.

I want to give Block to the BOBs, but I also fancy Guard on some of them. That´s why I want 4 RRs (also for the first games) and not two Throwers or 13 players. When I have two players with Guard that protect the ball carrier in a cage hopefully that is enough to fend off Wardancers. But I´ll still be nervous if my ball carrier has not SH.

I´ll foul when I get a juicy target but I will not take Dirty Player. Not worth it to me.

@Snew: Mighty Blow is nice, my normal priorites are Guard on BOBs and Blitzers and some Block on BOBs. If I could get Tackle together with Mighty Blow (not possible) I´d take that in a heartbeat.

Is Juggernaught that good? At least a Wardancer doesn´t have access and I haven´t seen Juggernaught very often in the tournaments I´ve been too.

I´ll block every time I can if the odds are good, naturally. First the safe stuff, protecting the ball carrier, two die blocks, maybe then one die blocks (depending what would happen if I´d roll a Attacker Down).

Maybe I worry too much...

In that case, I'd either take a Thrower with Leader (allowing you to buy a 2nd Thrower without sacking a re-roll) or a Blitzer with Tackle, unless you expect to face only stompy opponents in the future, in which case you might consider a Black Orc with Block. Frankly, if your opponent uses his only improvement to get a Wardancer with Strip Ball and you only have one SH guy, that just means you have to neutralize the player.

Oh, and one more thing: You're Orcs. You should never have to make a one-die block.

Normally I don't bother with Sure Hands on the blitzer - against every other team it always feels like a bit of waste. I'd take either tackle or frenzy (if LRB5) to try and knock those dodgers down.

Then I'd just load up the BOBs with Guard which makes his life really hard since you can probably ensure 2 dice your choice should he go for the thrower.

Personnally I'd not bother with the 4th reroll - but since you've got it, it reduces the need for block or sure hands.

If its LRB5 you shouldn't take FF, AC or CL are more likely to help.

mattgslater wrote:: You're Orcs. You should never have to make a one-die block.

Very cool! I´ll make that my motto. Leader is cool, but I´d rather get another skill. Good suggestion to get two Throwers and 4 RR, though. And 13 players...not bad.

ianwilliams wrote:Personnally I'd not bother with the 4th reroll - but since you've got it, it reduces the need for block or sure hands.
If its LRB5 you shouldn't take FF, AC or CL are more likely to help.

My reasoning was if I have 4 RR I don´t need another one via a kick-off event. But I guess it´s better to have one AC or CL than a measely FF 1.

Hmm, if I didn´t go for 4 RR I could buy a 13th player, a Thrower or Lineman. I don´t want to take an unreliable Troll. I guess I will not change my lineup, I want to see how it works out. It´s a long time ago that I playerd Orcs.

How would your rosters look at TV 110?

I don't like having too many re-rolls; it makes me overconfident. That said, I'd go for the toughest, gnarliest team I could get:

4 Black Orcs: 32
4 Blitzers: 32
2 Throwers: 14
3 Lineorcs or 1 Troll and 1 Goblin: 15 (either way)
1 Apothecary (in Tourney, use on the first BH positional).
2 Re-Rolls
The Linos are a better deal if you expect to need to keep your overall player quality up, and the Troll and Goblin are a better deal if you think you'll be facing off against a lot of low-medium armor, 11-strong teams like elves and lizards, of if you think Big Guys will be a constant threat. Trolls are often effective against Trees; it's easy for an Orc team to pull (EDIT: 2) assists on the line, and if you give him Guard it gives you a very potent 3-4 defense (with the Troll at nose tackle, flanked by BOBs, in turn defended by BOB middle linebackers).

If I weren't bearish on re-rolls or bullish on Trolls, I might do this:
4 Black Orcs
4 Blitzers
2 Throwers
2 Linemen
1 Goblin
3 Re-Rolls (and NO ONE-DIE BLOCKS! NO !@#$%^& ONE-DIE BLOCKS!)

Orcs win on D. They win by sucking the life out of the opposing team for three or four turns, forcing the opponent to play man-down. Having a wall of a defense works wonders. You can only shut a Wardancer down by getting him on his own, so if you can, try to make the opponent use Leap to break through, and keep anyone but the dancers from getting a TZ on the guys you've set up take them down. Also, start one square back, not two (Quick Snap be damned), because you want to have a Blitzer in position to run in for a score on the second turn if the offense doesn't get control of the ball before you can pounce on it.

In this format, if I didn't start with a Tackle Blitzer, I'd take a Black Orc with Block or a Troll with Guard. How bashy is the pool of teams in general? Do you know your Wood Elf opponent? How good is he/she? Can you win without taking a dancer-killer? Do you think your next opponent will give you a chance to use whatever skill you take? The teams vulnerable to ST3 Block/Tackle early on are Amazons, Wood Elves, Skaven, Humans, Lizardmen, Goblins, Halflings, Undead, and to a lesser degree Necromantic, Norse, Dark Elves and Ogres. If you're mostly worried about Khemri, Dwarf, Chaos, Chaos Dwarfs or other Orcs, then take something that helps your line, and deal with the elves. Is the Tournament single-elimination?

I've heard a lot of people advise that you should kick first with a grindy team, but with an Orc team against Wood Elves, I disagree. If you receive first, you'll get the first hit in, and your opponent will likely spend the rest of the match man-down. That's priceless. When you're kicking to an opponent who can field 9 guys to your 11, he has no choice but to remain open to a pass rush. When he's fielding 6 guys to your 10, the fact that you're kicking to him just means you have to carry the ball that much less.

If you're mostly playing against agility teams, why do you need a bench for orcs? I totally agree with the one-die block thing, orcs shouldn't do that at all, it's just bad math.

My TR110 orc roster would look like this:

2 Thrower 160
4 BOB 320
4 Bli 320
1 Gob 40
4 RR 240
2 FF/CL/AC whatever

My skills would be Block on all the black orcs, and guard on 2 blitzers. 4RR is plenty, to where you don't need leader. I would play a running game most of the time, ala dwarves with the throwers picking up the ball and keeping it most of the time, so the Sure Hands can keep the Strip Ball guys away. Having two of them back helps against kick skill, you want to make sure somebody can get the ball the same turn it's kicked.

wesleytj wrote:If you're mostly playing against agility teams, why do you need a bench for orcs?

To deal with ejections. You need to put your opponent man-down right away, and you can't do that if you can't replace ejections. This gives you a little shield so bad early luck doesn't screw you (ending up man-down against elves is a sucky place to be).

If you don't like to foul and you don't like trolls, then I could see going with a lot of re-rolls instead of a bench; even then, four feels like overkill. What I say, though, is if your opponent only has six guys on the field and you've got 4 guys with Block and two guys with Sure Hands, why do you need re-rolls?

Remember that against wood elves, any player they've got is a good trade for a line-orc! Dem bootz wuzz made fer stompin'!

Well, you and I play very differently then. Fouling is not good math in current LRB. You'll have a numbers advantage in most games anyway.

Remember that against wood elves, any player they've got is a good trade for a line-orc! Dem bootz wuzz made fer stompin'!

Yeah, but since my roster has no line orcs...

Per wesleytj's remark: If you don't foul, I agree you don't need take line-orcs; go for a Troll and Goblin instead (12 guys is plenty, as long as you have 11 guys not counting Goblins). If you do have thirteen guys to your opponent's 11, fouling is good math; your opponent can end up man-down and you can't. Besides, not fouling is un-Orky. (We need an orky emoticon. is green, but he's wearing shades and smoking -- this ain't Shadowrun.)

I like to have a bench on an Orc team, you can always get a KOed (or worse) player that may not come back. To have a substitute (if sent off) for a valuable foul attempt looks also good to me.

I´m also a firm believer of kicking to an agility team in the first half. They score anyway on you, and when you hopefully beat them up (and score) they have no opportunity to roll for KOs twice. IMO that´s better than having a chance to draw first blood on the LOS.

The first set up specifically doesn't work well against WEs at 110 (sorry), but it's pretty much invulnerable to other elves, Zons or pretty much any team without +ST players. The others have worked for me very well, also. My defense against WE isn't perfect, but if you can use it to take out a dancer, you can really change the dynamic of the game.

B = BOB
Z = Blitzer
T = Troll or maybe Line-Orc
L = Line-Orc or Thrower
- = empty space
| = wide zone

Just above each diagram is LOS. Sometimes if the league is long or the tournament allows multiple doubles rolls, you can get Side Step on two Black Orcs. If you're so fortunate, use those guys as linebackers, so you can use them to clog lanes even when they go down. An elf team will just frickin' hate this.

That was one fun tournament, I never played an agility team. I changed my mind and took a second Thrower/13 players and 3 RR. My Orcs got their butts kicked in terms of casualities, so sometimes I was very happy I had 13 players. Sometimes I very much regretted that I hadn´t 4 RR (stupid both downs on the block dice).

Overall I think that even on an Orc team a bench is very valuable. When you suffer KOs or casualties (and your opponent not, which was very often for me, damm dice) you´re in big trouble.