dark elf 1.1 staring league team and skill choices

tree_hugger · Post by **tree_hugger** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:09 am

Hi guys jsut about to play dark elves for the first time - omg mainly cos i got my hands on about 17 2nd ed dark elves - yeh

using lrb5 of course

i intend to throw and pass the ball around a lot like real elves and maybe try a runing game with the runners - although not settled

are assins that good? i worry abut av7 and getting exposed

these are the lineups im thinking of for 1.1

4 blitz
2 runner
2 assassins
3 line
3 reroll

or

3 blitz
2 runner
1 assassin
6 linemen
2 rerolls

would like some feed back or alternative lists

for skills i was thinking blitzers to get blodged a lineo with kick and a lineo with leader

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:29 am

4 Blitzer
1 Runner
6 Line
4 Rerolls

Get skills on your Lineplayers. Buy Apothecary first. Then save for witch elves or if you mainly play with 2nd edition go for another runner and then more line.

Haven't used Assassins alot but with Leap and that nasty stab they can pick out ballcarriers in cages more easy.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:59 am

I'd favour starting with assassins as stab is most useful early when you have no good weapon against players wit Dodge or Blodge. They also skill up slowly.

Runners are good but because they skill up quickly I'd hold off. But that's a marginal call IMO.

So I'd go:

400 4 Blitzers
180 2 Assassins
350 5 Linemen
150 3 Rerolls
20 Fanfactor 2

That's for a long league. For a short one, I'd drop the assassins & grab a Witch Elf. Her three skills are great over only a few games.

tree_hugger · Post by **tree_hugger** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:45 pm

hi - sorry did one of u say the assasins have leap - or was that try and get them leap ?

hmm kind aliek the 4 blitzer idea with the 2 assasins and 5 linoes- handt thought of dropping the runners- i tohught dump off was kinda cool as a last resort to keeping the ball

Kheldar · Post by **Kheldar** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:05 pm

I am of the oppinion, that assasins in a starting lineup are a waste of money. If you play against av9 opponents, or even av8 most of the time your step wont work. Then you have a AV7 player without block and dodge right beside you potential "target".

I would take a maximum of one later on. To start i would go with at least 3 rerolls all 4 blitzers and if possible both witches. If not take a with and a runner.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:01 pm

Dark Elves are great at 110. I like Stashman's setup, except you don't need 4 Re-Rolls.

Assuming you're playing a league with a total of at least 10 games, here's what I'd do.
4 Blitzers
6 Line-Elves
1 Runner
3 Re-Rolls
1 Apothecary

Starting with an Apoth is a great deal in a medium or long season, given that you pay an avg. 8.2 per AV8 player and 8 for your AV7 guy. If you're high like a lot of coaches and don't think you have to worry about SIs or kills, take it as a 100% insurance policy against a BH. Some people will tell you not to start with one on principle, but on an expensive, only-slightly-tough team it's a necessity. You could easily drop the Runner for a Line-Elf and a point of FF, especially in a long season where everyone starts equal.

If you want a more dynamic spread, you can turn in one of those Re-Rolls, a Line-Elf and the Apothecary for an Assassin and a Runner, giving you a reserve. Two Re-Rolls is in fact enough for elves. In a shorter league or a tournament, this is definitely the way to go, even if it is a tad riskier and less winnings-friendly. If you think you'll be facing a lot of low-armor teams in a short league or tourney, you might want to turn in both Runners for a second Assassin and a Line-Elf.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:06 pm

Just because they have Stab doesn't mean you have to use it.
There will be teams where Stab is less useful or even useless. And against those treat them as linemen.

But they come into their own against cages and low AV guys, with or without skills.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:15 pm

Shadowing is fun and easy to use, even if it isn't terribly effective.

Meradanis · Post by **Meradanis** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:50 pm

To be honest: Assassins aren't worth their money. My last dark elf team didn't buy them although they had enough gold in their bank. I believe they've only been added to the team list because some caster at GW made those minis, not because they're of great use for the team. I'd save the money and buy some real usefull players.

My starting lineup would be:
1 Witch Elf 110k
4 Blitzers 400k
1 Runner 80k
5 Lineman 350k
3 Rerolls 150k
FF 1 or 10k banked

mattgslater did present some good reasons for an apo, but I would start without one nontheless. My reasoning: You're playing LRB5. The apo isn't as good anymore as it used to be in LRB4. And there're still those Journeyman to compensate any early losses.
Your first buy should be an apo, then you should save for the second Witch Elf.

Those first skill choices are be pretty straight forward: Dodge for all of your Blitzers. Block for the Witch Elf. First lineman to gain a skill up should get Kick, Block first followed by Dodge for the rest. Since I don't play the passing game with dark elves, I have given Nerves of Steel to my Runners first. You could try to turn a Runner into a classic Thrower, but that would be a waste of his starting skill (Dump-off).

After the first skill ups, the fun part begins: Developing your team. A double on a lineman should always be Guard. Personally, I'd prefer Mighty Blow for Witch Elves/Blitzers, but Guard would be a valid option, too. You might even think about Juggernaut for one of your Witches, I tried this and was very happy with my decision. She made some great crowed pushed thanks to this skill. For normal rolls, I'd go for a combination of Tackle, Dauntless and Strip Ball for those blitzing positionals. If you're gaining even more skills, add in Side Step (good for everyone), Diving Tackle (especially good with Tackle and/or Side Step) and Leap (for those Strip Ball elves).

Take nearly every stat increase you can get, they'll pay off after some games. Only thing I wouldn't to is +MA/+AV for a lineman, they'll need skills instead.

I've played a very successfull dark elf team this way, winning the Chaos Cup and the Blood Bowl in our local league, unbeaten for their last 12 games. But I had some pretty nice skill rolls (3x Guard for my lineman, AG 6 Blitzer, Mighty Blow Blitzer and Witch and one Juggernaut Witch with AV8) and I've lost only 4 players after nearly 30 games.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:24 pm

If you take 2 casualties in a match, that's a 75% chance that you take one or more BH. If your average player value is 80k, which is about right, then that's a 75% chance of getting 80k back, or a 60k recovery, even if you only use the Apoth on BH results. So even then he's more than paying for himself on average. If you use it to save dead players, even one success pays for him both in and after the match.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:08 am

mattgslater wrote:If you take 2 casualties in a match, that's a 75% chance that you take one or more BH. If your average player value is 80k, which is about right, then that's a 75% chance of getting 80k back, or a 60k recovery, even if you only use the Apoth on BH results. So even then he's more than paying for himself on average. If you use it to save dead players, even one success pays for him both in and after the match.

I usually buy an apo after the first game and buy a reroll instead (saves you 50k), IMO you need at least 3 RRs.
You're right, if you are unlucky that apo might pay for himself real quick, but in the first game there rarely are many dangerous skills around so I usually take the risk.

For the rest I 100% agree with Meradanis. Assassins aren't worth their money, I have one in my team but he's usually just warming the bench.
My team won the league by taking guard on the linemen and mighty blow on the positionals for every double:
http://users.skynet.be/fb129021/teams_e ... ashers.xls

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:46 pm

Agree with those who say starting with assassin is a waste. It's good to get one eventually, when you have a decent bench, and field them against AV7 teams. They're a nightmare to amazons, wood elves, rats, etc, but against everyone else they are nothing special. My starting tv110 roster would be:

4 blitzers 400
6 line elves 420
1 witch elf 110
3 rerolls 150
2 ff/cl/ac 20

I typically don't start with witches, because they can be a liability early on. Being av7 with frenzy and no block is kinda nuts, when you have nobody to give much help.

On the other hand, I wouldn't start with runners either, because they can hog completion spp. You'll always set them up deep, and as such they'll always get completions on offense. Much better to spread those completions around for a few game, so everyone gets 1spp. That way no matter who gets the mvp will get a skill.

So that's what I'd go with. 3 rr is nice too; gives you a little more wiggle room for bad dice compared with most elf teams, which start with 2 at 100.

Enjoy!

Buggrit · Post by **Buggrit** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:36 pm

Glowworm had a solid startup team at 1.1 although our league gives you 1.1 with the proviso that you have a minimum FF of 5, I think that Glowworm took an Apoth off the bat, although I'm not certain...

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:02 pm

If you want the best chance of winning, get the following line-up

3 re-rolls- (150K)
3 blitzers- (300k)
1 witch elf- (110K)
7 linemen- (490k)
1 apothecary- (50K)

I wouldn't waste any time on runners or assasins off the bat, and 3 re-rolls should be enough for you.

However, this roster has the disadvantage of not being able to play with the assasins or runners (Which for many is the fun of trying this team.)

So the following may be more fun:

3 re-rolls (150k)
2 blitzers (200k)
2 Witch elf (220k)
1 assassin (90k)
1 runner (80k)
5 linemen (350k)
10k in treasury

That's a high move, low armor team, so good luck! On the other hand, you get to try out all the positionals and really get a feel for the playstyle. Alternately, drop the second witch, pick up an additional assasin, and upgrade one more linemen to a runner.

Vindicta Mickey · Post by **Vindicta Mickey** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:03 pm

Actually, I started my DE team with two runners, and they're ace... once they get their first skill increase. With Nerves of Steel, your opponent will have a very tough time stopping them working in tandem. So my advise would be: start with two runners, make sure they get NoS. And because they don't start out great, they will give your Linemen a chance to rack up some SPP. Runners are often very much underestimated. Ow, and they're relatively affordable.

Assassins are fun, but seldomly very useful. I started with two, but that was a mistake.