LRB 5: Advancing Longbeards (and other Dwarfs)

[Evisceratus]

Hello all,

I've had a bit of a scour for advancement recommendations for Dwarfs using LRB 5, and only found little nuggets here and there.

This is what I've come up with so far for Longbeards (or Blockers as they're now known. Boo!).

1st Skill: Guard
2nd Skill: Mighty Blow
3rd Skill: Stand Firm
4th Skill: Grab
5th Skill: Pro

I chose Guard first because I use Longbeards as the standard maulers for the team, sticking them on my line of scrimmage and trying to tie up and batter as many opposing players as possible. Guard on all 5 or 6 of them will create a web of assisting tackle zones that'll help prevent my Longbeards from being knocked over, and increase the likelihood of 2-dice blocks.

I chose Mighty Blow second because the aim of my Longbeards is to take out the opposing front line, and MB appeared to be the most useful, seeing as they'll already have Block, Tackle and Guard and should be swarming all over the opposition.

Stand Firm came third because I want to increase the likelihood of being able to throw as many blocks as possible, so that reduces the chance of the opposing players pushing me away (if they can get around the Guarding assists) to deny blocks in my turn.

Going into the unlikely realms of a fourth skill, I chose Grab so that if I didn't knock the opposing player over, I'd push him into a square surrounded by other Guarding Longbeards, where another block could possibly be thrown.

Pro came fifth so that if I didn't knock over the opposing player down, I'd have a 50% chance of throwing the block again (hoping that it's a 2-dice block in the first place).

With regard to unusual dice-rolls for improvements, I'd probably forgo MA, AG and AV increases in favour of the skills above. A Strength increase would definitely be taken, but the option of choosing Dodge on a double is still tempting, just to make the Longbeard harder to knock down.

I'd appreciate any comments on the thoughts above, especially if you think/know that there is a better combo/order that I haven't considered.

I'll follow this one up soon with my thoughts on the other Dwarf positions too.

Thanks for reading!

[Joemanji]

Yep, that's pretty standard fare. Every Dwarf Lineman should take Guard first. You'll want Kick on one next though, as your positionals are too specialised for you to put in on them. Kick is a vital skill for Dwarfs - it has won me games.

On doubles, Diving Tackle is a very sweet deal, as the player already has Tackle. Side Step can be good too as a way of slipping a Guard assister into key positions, though as you can take Stand Firm on a normal roll it is a bit of a luxury.

[Digger Goreman]

To control the line against "Big Guys" you'll need to go Dauntless.... I've done this on my Zombies and it maximizes the Guard ability....

So my Zombies/Linemen go Block (which you already have), Guard (you have direct access, I have to get doubles), Dauntless....

I've blasted everything off the line with this....

[Evisceratus]

Ta for the replies.

I had penciled in Dirty Player to be given to one of the Longbeards, and a few of them would get Dauntless as Vomit says (for those Chaos Warriors, Mummies and so on).

Joemanji, what is it about Kick that's so important to you? It obviously removes/reduces the likelihood of a touchback and allows a little more control over the final landing position of the ball, but is that worth the loss of a skill on a Longbeard who can struggle to earn the SPPs anyway? Why not just boot the ball, let it go where it goes and get on with battering the opposition?

I can see the temptation behind Diving Tackle too, but I just don't like the idea of placing my own players prone. I'd prefer them standing and exerting tackle zones, but the possiblility of causing a turnover is very persuasive.



Here's what I've come up with for the Dwarf Blitzers...

1st Skill: Tackle
2nd Skill: Guard
3rd Skill: Mighty Blow
4th Skill Strip Ball
5th Skill: Grab

I use my Blitzers very much in their intended role; they're the glory boys who chase after the opposing ball carriers, sack them and retrieve the ball, scoring or helping the team out where neccessary.

Tackle was a neccessary first skill for dealing with those Dodging ball carriers. To me, it seems like a must for somebody in the role described above.

Guard came second because it works well with the front line of Longbeards & Slayers who also have Guard. Having a proverbial minefield of Guard will benefit the team so much.

Mighty Blow comes third because the players that the Blitzers hit will probably be lightly armoured, and it obviously increases the likelihood of taking them out the match permanently. Even when not blitzing ball-carriers, Mighty Blow is still very handy to have.

I decided to place Strip Ball before Grab. It simply increases the chances of getting the ball on the ground (and in multiple Dwarven tackle zones) which is desirable if the Blitzer doesn't knock the ball-carrier over.

Grab is the unlikely fifth skill, for the same reason as the Longbeards. It'll cancel out an opposing cheeky Sidestep, and will allow me to push the ball-carrier into more Dwarven tackle zones.

With regard to the unusual improvement rolls, ST increase is an obvious one, and I'd be tempted by the MA and AG increases, but not the AV one. The obvious skill choice here would be Dodge again (or possibly Diving Tackle), but none of the others stand out.

Thoughts?

[mlindsay2706]

Joemanji, what is it about Kick that's so important to you? It obviously removes/reduces the likelihood of a touchback and allows a little more control over the final landing position of the ball, but is that worth the loss of a skill on a Longbeard who can struggle to earn the SPPs anyway? Why not just boot the ball, let it go where it goes and get on with battering the opposition?

cant say why joe-maji (:D) does it, but for me its a vital skill.

kick means where you place the ball, its likely to stay in that vicinity.

different tactics against different teams.

one is to place the ball near the LOS. this is usually against weaker teams so that you can punch through their LOS and form a cage around the ball quickly. this is good for dwarfs, as with little MA you want the ball as close to you as you can get it. then you can take your time to steamroll down the field and get that TD

another one is to place the ball nearer the end zone. this is good for slower (usually bashy then) teams, as you can quickly scramble your runners/blitzers down to the ball and stop the ball carrier before he gets into your half of the field. also great for a very good counter attack, as if you get the ball carrier with a good block, you can pick up the ball next turn and score yourself, or at least keep it out of the way as long as you can until your slower players make it up there

thats the two main things i use, and is true for all teams. skaven are grea for the second tactic, being able to to flood the end zone with GR's very quickly. dwarfs will still be able to use their runners and blitzers however, and the longbeards are great for the first tactic. kick can also be used to draw out the oppositions main scorer away from the rest of his team if you put the ball right out of the way, giving you a decent blitz if you can make it.

kick can dictate the pace of play from the outset if used correctly.

[stashman]

Here is my TV 222 Dwarfs after 34 matches. Let me present:

Jolly Goodfellas

Slayer 5 4 2 8 Mighty Blow, Piling On, Juggernaut, Tackle [Stand Firm or Side Step]

Blitzer 5 3 3 9 Dodge, Stand Firm [Guard or Leap]
Blitzer 6 3 4 9 Guard, Sure Hands [Grab/Juggernaut or Leap]

Runner 6 3 3 8 Block, Accurate, Strong Arm [Kick-Off Return/Pass or Sure Feet]
Runner 6 3 4 8 Block, Nerves of Steel, Side Step [Fend or Dodge]

Blocker 4 4 2 9 Guard [Mighty Blow or Dodge]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Guard, Stand Firm [Mighty Blow/Grab]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Guard, Stand Firm [Mighty Blow/Grab]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Guard, Side Step [Mighty Blow/Fend or Dodge]
Blocker 4 3 2 8 Guard, Side Step [Mighty Blow/Fend or Dodge]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Wrestle, Side Step [Fend or Diving Tackle]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Wrestle [Fend or Diving Tackle/Side Step]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Guard, Niggling [Dirty Player or Sneaky Git]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 --- [Guard/Kick]

Rerolls: 5
Fan Factor: 9
Ass.coach: 2
Cheerleader: 1
Treasury: 630,000

[This is my next skill choice] I think my team is very powered even without Mighty Blow (I rack up casualties easy becuse of lots of 2 dice blocks). Inputs would be nice.

Should I kick my niggling guard blocker?
What about getting a Deathroller?
I hade a second slayer but he didn't get any skills so I kicked him just to lower my TV before season start. Shall I get a new?

Most teams in this division have between 190-240 TV.

[mattgslater]

1st Skill: Guard

You can stop there. They're Longbeards. They don't handle the ball. They get the occasional Cas and the odd MVP. That doesn't mean they won't get a second increase. It does mean that if you wait for the third or fourth or fifth increase for those skills, you'll never take them.

I say: specialize a bit! Maybe go Guard-Stand Firm for the first two and Mighty Blow-Grab for the third, or something like that. Doubles give you lots of good options: Dodge and Diving Tackle are the obvious ones, but Side Step is just so much fun!

For Blitzers, Mighty Blow is a great first skill, because it accelerates SPP development. Pro is also good for the same reason. Taking Tackle on a Blitzer is like bringing sand to the beach. Grab is underrated and makes a great second skill (my Pro Elves are exceptionally thankful that somehow the Dwarf coach in our league hasn't caught on). Guard is good on a Blitzer, but it's kind of painful to take Guard on a skill position when you only have four of 'em available. On doubles, Dodge is good of course, and Nerves of Steel is good too (that used to be a common first or second choice skill back when it was G).

[Xeterog]

1st Skill: Guard
2nd Skill: Mighty Blow
3rd Skill: Stand Firm
4th Skill: Grab
5th Skill: Pro

What Blocker gets to 5 skills

(jk...sorta).
after 47 LRB5 games with my Dwarves in the MBBL I have (for blockers)
1) Guard, +1 ST, Side Step (very nice with guard
2) Guard, Mighty Blow, Stand Firm (and -1 AV--yuck)
3) Guard, Mighty Blow, Grab (got tired of sidesteppers messing up my plans)
4) Guard, +1AV, Grab
5) Guard
6&7) no skills

#3 Is at 50spps, while 1&2 are at 44, so close to leveling up.

pretty basic..guard 1st...every time. Some have Mighty Blow, some have grab, with a few stat increases and other skills. (stand firm, side step).

For my blitzer (yes, singular--just lost my 5/3/5/10 dodge, sure hands blitzer )
I have Mighty blow, Piling on, Guard and Jump Up. (btw, all skills are listed in the order taken)
My TV is 233 now and I doubt I'll be replacing the dead blitzer any time soon.

Slayers (both have -1 AG)
1) Mighty blow, Juggernaut, +1 St, Jump up
2) Juggernaut, Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Guard, +AV

Runners
1) +ST, Block, Fend, Tackle, Pro
2) Block, Kick Off Return, Leader, Fend, Dodge.

I have a Death roller with Multiple block (still not sure it's worth the +18 TV it currently takes)

I don't even consider taking dauntless for Blockers--have it with the slayers and guard ususally makes it un-needed elsewhere.

Kick is a luxury I don't usually go for on my blockers. also, my 'normal' set up involves 3 blockers on the LOS, and one in each Wide Zone...and positionals to fill up to 11...so they aren't normally in position to use the kick skill.

Dirty player is a tough one. It's hard for me to risk my relatively expensive linemen (blockers) to foul with--not many players out there who are worth me losing a player for.

[stashman]

I say: specialize a bit! Maybe go Guard-Stand Firm for the first two and Mighty Blow-Grab for the third, or something like that. Doubles give you lots of good options: Dodge and Diving Tackle are the obvious ones, but Side Step is just so much fun!

Thats what I mean by showing my teamroster. You don't get that much rolls for skills on Blockers.

[Aliboon]

Dwarf blitzers are a bit difficult to chose skills for as they are probably the players you are least likely to blitz with, longbeards already have tackle, slayers have frenzy and runners have the extra MA.

That's not to say they aren't worth having in your team, but apart from providing additional AG, which may be needed, they have no concrete role in the team imo.

They will progress quite quickly as you can score with them and should be able to get ~ 3 skills easily enough. I think you're best considering them as a more mobile longbeard really and pick skills accordingly (MB, guard, probably dodge on doubles and then something which the rest of the team doesn't have at the time-kick, grab, strip ball etc)

Under LRB5 you do have some more skill options, which is a big improvement over LRB4 for dwarves as previously they would quite quickly run out of decent skill choices.

I'm not sure about your choice of wrestle on the LBs, they are very slow (more so once they've paid to stand up) and won't be able to move away very well if you force your opo to wrestle you down, but I suppose against other bash teams you may have found it effective?

If i were you I'd use some of your treasury to definitely get another slayer. With that amount of cash i'd probably fire your niggled longbeard too. Not sure about the deathroller-depends whether you're being outbashed in your league (by the sounds of it you aren't, so you prob don't need it).

[TuernRedvenom]

To do real damage you'll want a few (2 at least) Mighty Blow/Pile On players. Blitzers are probably best for this because not many players will voluntarily end their turn next to these guys so you'll have to blitz with them.

[Snew]

I thought all Longbeards had to take Guard then MB. It's in their team description.

[Jural]

Naah, +STR is OK too.

Oh, and you can also turn your longbeards into wizards, and launch fireballs out of their nether regions, but that costs 10K extra.

I thought all Longbeards had to take Guard then MB. It's in their team description.

[stashman]

Jolly Goodfellas

Slayer 5 4 2 8 Mighty Blow, Piling On, Juggernaut, Tackle [Stand Firm or Side Step]
Slayer 5 3 2 8 --- [Guard/Mighty Blow/Piling On or Jump-Up]

Blitzer 5 3 3 9 Dodge, Stand Firm [Guard or Leap]
Blitzer 6 3 4 9 Guard, Sure Hands [Grab/Juggernaut or Leap]

Runner 6 3 3 8 Block, Accurate, Strong Arm [Kick-Off Return/Pass or Sure Feet]
Runner 6 3 4 8 Block, Nerves of Steel, Side Step [Fend or Dodge]

Blocker 4 4 2 9 Guard [Mighty Blow or Dodge]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Guard, Stand Firm [Mighty Blow/Grab]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Guard, Stand Firm [Mighty Blow/Grab]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Guard, Side Step [Mighty Blow/Fend or Dodge]
Blocker 4 3 2 8 Guard, Side Step, Grab [Mighty Blow/Fend or Dodge]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Wrestle, Side Step [Fend or Diving Tackle]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Wrestle [Fend or Diving Tackle/Side Step]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 Guard, Diving Tackle, Niggling [Stand Firm or Side Step]
Blocker 4 3 2 9 --- [Guard/Kick]

Rerolls: 5
Fan Factor: 10
Ass.coach: -
Cheerleader: -
Treasury: 570,000

Got two new skills on the team after winning 2-1 vs norse team. Got Grab on a side stepper (will se how it works when you choose where square) and the niggling player got a double! Well, my next opponent are amazons so I took Diving Tackle. Got a new slayer too, as I was recomended.

My opponent haven't lost one match i 14 games but I won over his norse last week, and then a nurgle team won over him (missed players after my meeting) and now he lost again. He said: - I really don't know how take the ball once you have it. Not with theese team.

Soo he fouled out both my ST4 slayer and my AG4 runner. I didn't care, I still stalled and hoped for the better dices, keeping the blocking against him, but no foul.

So what is the medicine too take the ball from the dwarfs at this high TV 234. Well one thing is to use a fantastic wizard. What else. And I'm relly thinking of getting a Death-Roller, just so I can FOUL back.

[datalorex]

To control the line against "Big Guys" you'll need to go Dauntless.... I've done this on my Zombies and it maximizes the Guard ability....

So my Zombies/Linemen go Block (which you already have), Guard (you have direct access, I have to get doubles), Dauntless....

I've blasted everything off the line with this....

Don't they already have Troll Slayers for that?