Dark Elves - should I have the courage of my convictions?

[Joemanji]

I'm running this Dark Elf team: http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/teamView.php?teamid=630

My original plan was to skill up the linos ASAP and then build around Jump Up and Wrestle, with the basic skills such as Dodge on positionals. Jump Up is a great skill in numbers, forcing your opponent to think about not following up, and thus forcing me into fewer dodge rolls. But after playing (and losing) 3 games it has struck me that I really need to get as much Dodge in this team as possible, especially with only 2 re-rolls. Just that one Dodge blitzer has been a godsend.

I'm hoping quite a few players will hit their first Improvement roll soon. So, should I stick with my original plan, or deviate and get some dodging linos first?

Cheers
Joe

[TuernRedvenom]

I have a dark elf team which developed without dodge on the linemen but with all blitzers taking dodge as first pick. It started out slow but became a real powerhouse after 6 games. I say stick with it!

[Grogmir]

Dark Elves start slow. In my league I lost my first two and then didn't lose again for 20 games (in the final no less!)

I would ditch your plan. I'm sorry I just don't see it working. Dark Elves are all about the Witches and Blitzers!
Witches need block
Bltizers need dodge but perhaps not on all 4 straight away.

I like to get one with Dauntless to help against the power teams.
Once you have the basic skills DE's take off.

Other quick advice, Never have more than 1 Runner and Assassain

Grogmir

[Marlow]

I am running an Elf (not Dark Elf) team and am planning Wrestle/Jump for half the Lineelves and a Catcher.

So I say stick with it, I will too and we can see how they play in six months when we both have some skilled players!

[Snew]

I would ditch your plan. I'm sorry I just don't see it working. Dark Elves are all about the Witches and Blitzers!
Witches need block
Bltizers need dodge but perhaps not on all 4 straight away.

But that would defeat his purpose of trying something new and different. It might work but you haven't tried it because of more obvious choices. It's also why it sounds like he wants to skill up his Linemen.

Stick with it. Give it a shot.

[Warpstone]

Joe, have you given the Slann roster a go? Granted you'll get 4 blitzers with jump up, but it might be a quicker to try out your strategy with the frogmen--although if you can find a way to keep your jump up wrestlers alive, please let me know how you did it

[Grogmir]

I would ditch your plan. I'm sorry I just don't see it working. Dark Elves are all about the Witches and Blitzers!
Witches need block
Bltizers need dodge but perhaps not on all 4 straight away.

But that would defeat his purpose of trying something new and different. It might work but you haven't tried it because of more obvious choices. It's also why it sounds like he wants to skill up his Linemen.

Stick with it. Give it a shot.

That's true Snew. Nothing ventured nothing gained and all that... Give it a go and let us know. One problem you will have is getting the linos the skill points but good luck. I have 1 wrestle on a lino only ever used it once in a game against dwarves.

To jazz it up a little with DE's I suggest giving one of your linos NoS (Double of course) and leap. (its a variation on the old runner to runner ploy( I only use one!) Stick him near your Runner anddump off to him. Even if he's surronded he can leap out. Normally they just end up leaving a hole elsewhere.

[PubBowler]

Bltizers need dodge but perhaps not on all 4 straight away.

Other quick advice, Never have more than 1 Runner and Assassain
Grogmir

It's getting a little away from Joemanji's query (to which I say stick with it, if nothing else it'll be funny but I'd suggest some Sneaky Git/Dirty Player guys if you're going to take that much wrestle) but I disagree with this.

I think it's entirely possible to have successful Blitzers without Dodge, in fact I'd argue that you could have a entire Dark Elf team without Dodge and still be successful.
Players with Tackle cancel the effectiveness of Dodge players very easily (that's a not so smart way of saying your opponent doesn't need very many Tackle players to make all your Dodge players useless). Choosing other skills over Dodge makes any Tackle chocies on the opposing team irrelevant. You do have to live without Witch Elves though.

Runner work best in pairs (preferably with NOS) causing all manner of problems for the opposing player. Just working out how far away the ball could end up from two guys with Dump Off is enough to use up 4mins of time (if you are unfortunate enough to use that rule).

Assassins, I can go either way but. as with most targeted players, having one is just making your opponents life easier.

[Marlow]

One problem you will have is getting the linos the skill points but good luck. I

With AG 4 Elves can make easy Quick Pass's to each other (two 2+ Rolls) so they can use that to get a few extra skill points.

[datalorex]

One problem you will have is getting the linos the skill points but good luck. I

With AG 4 Elves can make easy Quick Pass's to each other (two 2+ Rolls) so they can use that to get a few extra skill points.

Of course, but that only gets you so far, and without Block, wrestling elves won't score CAS, and they won't be scoring TDs either. And if they are on the line, they won't be getting CP points either. So you pretty much have to rely on MVP's to skill these guys up.

[Marlow]

[
Of course, but that only gets you so far, and without Block, wrestling elves won't score CAS, and they won't be scoring TDs either. And if they are on the line, they won't be getting CP points either. So you pretty much have to rely on MVP's to skill these guys up.

They can score CAS, or even TD; they are just less likly too.
Casulties are fairly random anyway!

One of my Linemen scored a TD last game as he was the closes to the ball when it went down; he is now in 9 SPP.

[Grogmir]

Sorry Marlow, I stick with my conviction that DE linos have trouble getting two skills +

As for direct Blitzer advice I agree with you completly, You can have good blitzers without Dodge. I hinted at such in my first post but will expand now.

You obviously have 4 Blitzers.
Two I would suggest Dodge, Side Step, Tackle (Guard if double!) Your more defensive players. Boring but its only a suggestion!

One I give in no general order Dauntless, M.Blow, Pill On, Tackle, You know a real Hard Hitter, Dauntless is the most defining here - he's going to give you some power against high strength teams.

You hope fingers crossed to get an ability increase on one. I got a movement increase on mine and so i got sure Feet, another movement (Lucky I know) this gave me a great deep hitter.
IF you get +1 AG, then a leaping blitzer is your route.
IF you get + 1 ST then go will your league.

Well That is my 5 pounds worth... Sorry to carry on, I just love DE tactical discussion, the best team in the game IMO (for a comb of fun and win ability)

Grogmir.

[Falkom]

Of course, but that only gets you so far, and without Block, wrestling elves won't score CAS, and they won't be scoring TDs either. And if they are on the line, they won't be getting CP points either. So you pretty much have to rely on MVP's to skill these guys up.

I agree with this. In my first Lrb5 league I gave wrestle to one HE lino. Very bad choice! You dont use him for TD as skill will not help him if he get blitzed neither you use him for block/blitz as (usually) u can`t accept one less standing player on field. IMO both block or dodge will be much better choice.

Regarding DE blitzers development I usually use this pattern for skill advance:
+ST -> MB -> Tackle -> Dodge
+AG -> Leap -> Dodge -> Strip ball
+MV -> Sure feet -> Strip ball -> Dodge/Tackle

if first advance is normal roll:
Dodge -> Sidestep


normal skill

[Da_Great_MC]

I have some experience with Dark Elves, both long term LRB5 league and tournaments.

I always take Dodge first on Blitzers, then Sidestep.
Block first on Witch Elves, then Sidestep.
Dodge first on Linemen, then Wrestle.
Tournament Runners get Dodge, League Runners get Pass.
Close to no experience with Assassins.

[DoubleSkulls]

One problem you will have is getting the linos the skill points but good luck. I

With AG 4 Elves can make easy Quick Pass's to each other (two 2+ Rolls) so they can use that to get a few extra skill points.

Of course, but that only gets you so far, and without Block, wrestling elves won't score CAS, and they won't be scoring TDs either. And if they are on the line, they won't be getting CP points either. So you pretty much have to rely on MVP's to skill these guys up.

I think this is a little misleading. One of the reasons blockless (or wrestle-less) players don't get many cas is because coaches don't block that often with them because of the risks involved. So when blitzing you are almost always going to choose the safe player to use. Also most coaches tend to do their "safe" blocks first (i.e. 2 dice with block).

So what wrestle does it make that player a "safe" blocker. Sure you won't get quite as many knock downs as a block player but you will be making a similar number of blocks - so get POWs & cas.

Against a victim without block or wrestle the block player has 27 results to get an Av roll and the wrestle player 20 - so in that circumstance you are talking about 35% more Av rolls, but once you factor in the proportion of players with block you are probably only looking at half that overall. So the progression is slower, but not by much.

There are only 3 results out of 36 where the wrestle player has to take the both down result too - so its hardly that onerous a problem.