Kick-Off Return on a One-Turner

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:24 am

I found a good use of the kick-off return skill. Put it on a one-turner and stay 3 squares behind the LOS and protect yourself against a blitz and maybe even perfect defence!

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:49 am

There's quite a few reasons to take that skill but ignore the kick (as the one-turner does in your suggestion):

- Put it on a slow blocker that you leave midfield, and move him towards where you want the cage to form.

- Put it on a blitzer 2 squares back from the LoS, and move him to where he gets a 2-die block on your first turn.

- Put it on a tree or BoN to move to the optimum location for his TZs, and avoid have to roll Take Root/Really Stupid on the first round (granted, this will never happen 'cos block and pro are MUCH better doubles skills).

I play BB sevens, and it's even more useful there: there's only 10 squares from half-way to the EZ, but players start 13 squares from the EZ. Put KOR on any MA8 rookie, and he's a one-turner

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:32 am

I'm not really following what you guys are talking about. You can't enter the opponent's half of the pitch with KOR, so how does that give you a one turn score?

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:37 am

tenwit wrote:I play BB sevens, and it's even more useful there: there's only 10 squares from half-way to the EZ, but players start 13 squares from the EZ. Put KOR on any MA8 rookie, and he's a one-turner

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:02 pm

Ignoring 7's, how does giving KoR help with one-turn scoring? It states in the skill description that you can't enter the opponent's half. And the other uses that moves a player in a position to get two-dice blocks? You receive, you setup last, so you can position your players to get those two-dice blocks without any other skill. Unless you were thinking to go in the opponent's half with KoR, which you can't.

For 7's, then it's a different story. Hadn't thought of using KoR this way ...

Kheldar · Post by **Kheldar** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:41 pm

It does not help scoring, but prevents your runner from being hit when a blitz occurs, cause you can screen him, and move him on the line, when no blitz is rolled. Or can move him where the defense is smallest on a perfect defense result.

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:53 pm

Cramy wrote:Ignoring 7's, how does giving KoR help with one-turn scoring? It states in the skill description that you can't enter the opponent's half. And the other uses that moves a player in a position to get two-dice blocks? You receive, you setup last, so you can position your players to get those two-dice blocks without any other skill. Unless you were thinking to go in the opponent's half with KoR, which you can't.

For 7's, then it's a different story. Hadn't thought of using KoR this way ...

He didn't say it helped any-one OTS.

He said put it on your OTS guy and then you could place him up to 3 squares back from the LOS , behind screens or what-not to protect him from the blitz. Then you would use kick-off return to move the up to 3 squares back to the LOS before the kick landed from which you would then OTS.

ok ?

Then, as to setting up 2 dice blocks , kick off return allows you to set a 3rd in the flank thus getting a 2 dice you might not have been able to set for. And, even if you could have set for the 2 dice block anyway -kick off return allows you to set up 3 squares away (and still get it if you want it) So, that could possibly be tz filling in a potential blitz gap, or 3 squares towards moving across the pitch to get a kick that went contrary to your prefered direction.

Now, my question is this. What is the timing of Blitz vs kick off return use?

Do blitzes happen before or after the kick off returner moves ?

I am sure that the ball lands after the blitz has been finished. I am also sure that the ball lands after the KoR player has moved. But is there an official ruling on which of these applies first?

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:05 pm

Double post to answer my question.

LRB5.0 Kickoff section wrote: • Place the ball on the pitch
• Scatter ball to determine where the ball is about to land
• Roll on the Kick-Off table
• Resolve the Kick-Off table result
• Bounce/ catch/or touchback the ball

LRB5.0 skills section wrote: Kick-Off Return (General)
A player on the receiving team that is not on the Line of Scrimmage or in
an opposing tackle zone may use this skill when the ball has been
kicked. It allows the player to move up to 3 squares after the ball has
been scattered but before rolling on the Kick-Off table. Only one player
may use this skill each kick-off. This skill may not be used for a
touchback kick-off and does not allow the player to cross into the
opponent’s half of the pitch.

So. In looking at it. The KoR guy moves before the blitz result is even made. Between step 2 and step 3. Thus pretty much invalidating (I believe) the use of this skill as protection from a blitz on the OTS man. Or as a reaction to perfect D.

Not only that, but I see an issue in the KoR description that clearly states "may not be used on for touch back kicks" even though the ball is only poised to land at the time the skill is applied and then might bounce off pitch or across the LOS for a touchback at the 4th step... I think a FAQ will be needed or the sentence will need some gramatical work to limit the restriction to only those trying to land as touchbacks.

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:06 pm

Kheldar wrote:It does not help scoring, but prevents your runner from being hit when a blitz occurs, cause you can screen him, and move him on the line, when no blitz is rolled. Or can move him where the defense is smallest on a perfect defense result.

that was the stated use. I think I have dis-proved that with the LRB5.0 text though.

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:15 pm

@Mad Jackal
Talking to yourself?

(Sorry, couldn't resist it

)

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:22 pm

Tante Kaethe wrote:@Mad Jackal
Talking to yourself?

(Sorry, couldn't resist it )

Yes, but only so you all can learn.

(couldn't resist either.)

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:01 am

Mad Jackal wrote:Not only that, but I see an issue in the KoR description that clearly states "may not be used on for touch back kicks" even though the ball is only poised to land at the time the skill is applied and then might bounce off pitch or across the LOS for a touchback at the 4th step... I think a FAQ will be needed or the sentence will need some gramatical work to limit the restriction to only those trying to land as touchbacks.

This came up during the Vault discussion.

We did not change the wording because at the time when Kick-Off Return is used is when you would check to see if the kick was a touch-back. Doesn't matter that if later it changes ... at the time of the skill use was this a true condition. So we didn't do an FAQ ... because clearly if the skill has to be used before the bounce .... then the bounce should not matter.

Galak