Slann tactics and development
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DamianTheLost
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Slann tactics and development
Ok so I'm thinkin about taking on the new Slann team to our next season. The team looks fun and promising with it's mix of skills and leap across the line. We are using the rules review 2007 roster, but we have house ruled diving catch so it can be used on bouncing balls as well. I basically need help with tactics team development and starting lineup. I looked trough the forum and saw and article that suggested the flying cage (but I can't find it anymore). Anyway hope some of you guys will share your experience with the team and how to develop it. Oh and it's a 1M lneup here
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tenwit
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DamianTheLost
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[quote="tenwit"]There's a starting point at [url]viewtopic.php?t=23661[/url].[/quote]
Yeah, I already read that one, but there's no starting line-up or skill progression, mostly i deals with the wrestle over block issue. I take it wrestle /strip ball would be solid on two blitzers and then Sure hands/block/dodge on catchers? Anywho I was wondering about how to devide the roles one the catchers and blitzers. You could also assign linemen to the Wrestle/cage breaking types and use the blitzers for other take (so they get SPP's). Lets have a good tactical discussion on these boys
Yeah, I already read that one, but there's no starting line-up or skill progression, mostly i deals with the wrestle over block issue. I take it wrestle /strip ball would be solid on two blitzers and then Sure hands/block/dodge on catchers? Anywho I was wondering about how to devide the roles one the catchers and blitzers. You could also assign linemen to the Wrestle/cage breaking types and use the blitzers for other take (so they get SPP's). Lets have a good tactical discussion on these boys
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tenwit
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Right then. I'd suggest initially using linemen as your blockers and blitzers, because of the cost of the blitzers. My initial line-up would have either one blitzer or one krox, depending on the other teams in the league: if it's a very finesse-oriented league, you'll need the turnover capabilities of the blitzer; if it's a bash-oriented league, you'll need the staying power of the krox.
For 1M:
4x Catcher = 320
7x Lineman = 420
1x Blitzer = 110
3x Reroll = 150
Or 6x lineman, 0x blitzer, 1x krox and savings. I can understand dropping the catchers to 2 and finding an extra reroll somewhere, but imo AG4 is going to save you more than one reroll per half, and that's all you'd be getting.
There's a lot to save for on this team: apo first, then any missing positionals.
Defensively, you want to put team your blitzer or krox with a lineman and put them next to some opposition player that'll have to move every turn: work towards turnovers with diving tackle or prehensile tail. Also hope for interceptions, but given the team, not many opposition coaches are going to pass in a game against you.
Offensively, you want a side stepping catcher running up each sideline ASAP, escorted by a lineman. Have your other positionals aim for turnovers. Games with slann teams should be faster than most: you want to force blitzer/krox-related turnovers twice per half, if you can.
Catch is less important than side step on catchers. Block and strip ball will be huge on your blitzers: don't give them wrestle, they're too expensive to put on the ground more often than you have to (DT is going to put them there often enough). Kick, Tackle, Wrestle and Block on the linemen. Remember, tackle and diving tackle don't have to be on the same player to work together, they just have to affect the same opposition player. Team your Tackle lineman up with your Diving Tackle blitzer, and you've got a killer combo.
For 1M:
4x Catcher = 320
7x Lineman = 420
1x Blitzer = 110
3x Reroll = 150
Or 6x lineman, 0x blitzer, 1x krox and savings. I can understand dropping the catchers to 2 and finding an extra reroll somewhere, but imo AG4 is going to save you more than one reroll per half, and that's all you'd be getting.
There's a lot to save for on this team: apo first, then any missing positionals.
Defensively, you want to put team your blitzer or krox with a lineman and put them next to some opposition player that'll have to move every turn: work towards turnovers with diving tackle or prehensile tail. Also hope for interceptions, but given the team, not many opposition coaches are going to pass in a game against you.
Offensively, you want a side stepping catcher running up each sideline ASAP, escorted by a lineman. Have your other positionals aim for turnovers. Games with slann teams should be faster than most: you want to force blitzer/krox-related turnovers twice per half, if you can.
Catch is less important than side step on catchers. Block and strip ball will be huge on your blitzers: don't give them wrestle, they're too expensive to put on the ground more often than you have to (DT is going to put them there often enough). Kick, Tackle, Wrestle and Block on the linemen. Remember, tackle and diving tackle don't have to be on the same player to work together, they just have to affect the same opposition player. Team your Tackle lineman up with your Diving Tackle blitzer, and you've got a killer combo.
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Meradanis
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I'm playing my 16th game with Slann right now, so I might have some first hand experience to add here.
First of all, Slann live and die with their Rerolls. You have absolutely no Reroll saving skills: No Sure Hands, no Catch, no Pass, no Block, no Dodge. Especially the lack of Block hurts, you can't even do a single blitz/block without the 1/9 turnover chance.
Leap is a negatrait. Repeat this sentence 17 times, until you get the meaning. Leap is a negatrait. Don't even think about using the Leap skill excessively. Leaping around is an absolute no-go area. Never do it with your lineman. Only do it with your Blitzers if you can manage at least a 1 die blitz against the ballcarrier. Do it with your Catchers only if you would have to Dodge anyway. Leap burns Rerolls like hell, add this to the lack of Reroll saving skills, and you'll get the picture.
Since you need those Rerolls badly, you have to start with 3 at least. But since you need your positionals too, you can't afford more than 3 Rerolls. So start with 3.
My starting roster has been the following:
3x Blitzer: 330k
2x Catcher: 160k
6x Lineman: 360k
3x Reroll: 150k
Take a look at my roster, and you'll learn something about my tactics: French Fugitives
As you can see, I've taken Wrestle on 2 Blitzers. It's a great skill for them, because they start out with Jump up. Add in Strip Ball, and they can even do a blitz with 2 dice against them, if there is no Sure Hands involved.
Those other two have Block, and will choose Guard next.
Catchers will go for Dodge, Block and Catch, so there's no room for much variation until they've reached their 4th skill up. I've decided to go the the +1 MA, because Slann are too slow sometimes. They have 8x MA7 in their team, which is great on average. But without any MA8 peaks, the team still feels slower than it is.
One lineman with Sure Hands is a must have. Luckily, I've managed to roll +1AG on another lino, so I have always 2 players to pick up the ball.
Offensive tactic is simple: Create the hole, storm in and form the Slann cage (4 Blitzers, 1 Catcher in the middle). Unless your opponent has Leap himself, he won't be able to blitz your Catcher. With MA7 and 2+ Leap rolls, you should be able to make the touchdown next turn.
Defensive tactic is more challenging: Try to spread your opponent across the field, don't hesitate to use your linos as cannon fodder. With AV8, they'll manage to slow down your opponent without beeing CAS'ed too easily. You should try to break your opponents cage. If your opponent is more of the agile/running type, just use Diving Tackle to break the cage. If he's more of the slow/bashing type, jump directly into the cage and try to steal the ball.
Some coaches prefer the Pro skill for Slann very much, to Leap more effectively. In my opinion, that's a bad choice. Remember: Leap is a negatrait.
My teams performance improved dramatically with the 4th Reroll, add in some of those Reroll saving skills, and I can the game I would like to on most occasions. The Slann power curve is similiar to Chaos: You will most likely loose your first games, but if you manage to get a skill on every player, they start to rock.
Edit: I don't share tenwitts opinion against Wrestle for those Blitzers. The only time my Blitzers are on the ground (due to Wrestle) is when they've wrested down the ballcarrier, or in my opponents turn, when they wrestle someone down defensively. In both cases, the situation is rather negative for my opponent. He just lost the ball, or has a big hole in his defense, while my player will stand up and move 7 square. Not the best time for a foul.
First of all, Slann live and die with their Rerolls. You have absolutely no Reroll saving skills: No Sure Hands, no Catch, no Pass, no Block, no Dodge. Especially the lack of Block hurts, you can't even do a single blitz/block without the 1/9 turnover chance.
Leap is a negatrait. Repeat this sentence 17 times, until you get the meaning. Leap is a negatrait. Don't even think about using the Leap skill excessively. Leaping around is an absolute no-go area. Never do it with your lineman. Only do it with your Blitzers if you can manage at least a 1 die blitz against the ballcarrier. Do it with your Catchers only if you would have to Dodge anyway. Leap burns Rerolls like hell, add this to the lack of Reroll saving skills, and you'll get the picture.
Since you need those Rerolls badly, you have to start with 3 at least. But since you need your positionals too, you can't afford more than 3 Rerolls. So start with 3.
My starting roster has been the following:
3x Blitzer: 330k
2x Catcher: 160k
6x Lineman: 360k
3x Reroll: 150k
Take a look at my roster, and you'll learn something about my tactics: French Fugitives
As you can see, I've taken Wrestle on 2 Blitzers. It's a great skill for them, because they start out with Jump up. Add in Strip Ball, and they can even do a blitz with 2 dice against them, if there is no Sure Hands involved.
Those other two have Block, and will choose Guard next.
Catchers will go for Dodge, Block and Catch, so there's no room for much variation until they've reached their 4th skill up. I've decided to go the the +1 MA, because Slann are too slow sometimes. They have 8x MA7 in their team, which is great on average. But without any MA8 peaks, the team still feels slower than it is.
One lineman with Sure Hands is a must have. Luckily, I've managed to roll +1AG on another lino, so I have always 2 players to pick up the ball.
Offensive tactic is simple: Create the hole, storm in and form the Slann cage (4 Blitzers, 1 Catcher in the middle). Unless your opponent has Leap himself, he won't be able to blitz your Catcher. With MA7 and 2+ Leap rolls, you should be able to make the touchdown next turn.
Defensive tactic is more challenging: Try to spread your opponent across the field, don't hesitate to use your linos as cannon fodder. With AV8, they'll manage to slow down your opponent without beeing CAS'ed too easily. You should try to break your opponents cage. If your opponent is more of the agile/running type, just use Diving Tackle to break the cage. If he's more of the slow/bashing type, jump directly into the cage and try to steal the ball.
Some coaches prefer the Pro skill for Slann very much, to Leap more effectively. In my opinion, that's a bad choice. Remember: Leap is a negatrait.
My teams performance improved dramatically with the 4th Reroll, add in some of those Reroll saving skills, and I can the game I would like to on most occasions. The Slann power curve is similiar to Chaos: You will most likely loose your first games, but if you manage to get a skill on every player, they start to rock.
Edit: I don't share tenwitts opinion against Wrestle for those Blitzers. The only time my Blitzers are on the ground (due to Wrestle) is when they've wrested down the ballcarrier, or in my opponents turn, when they wrestle someone down defensively. In both cases, the situation is rather negative for my opponent. He just lost the ball, or has a big hole in his defense, while my player will stand up and move 7 square. Not the best time for a foul.
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tenwit
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Nice post, lots of info there.
Wrestle on blitzers is fair enough, if you're not going to use it just to avoid taking an armour roll. If you're pick-and-choosing your wrestle moments, of course it'll work.
The lack of reroll skills is indeed killing, and I was considering 11x (or maybe 12x) linemen just to afford a few more rerolls. But when I get to start a Slann team, I'm going to target the early-turnover way of playing. Slann can buy reroll skills easily enough, and will benefit from all of them. If you suffer a turnover the way I'd be playing, it's not too serious, because the ball is usually going to be in your TZ (failed catch, failed pick-up, failed GFI on ballcarrier, etc.), and that means you're going to have a good chance of inflicting a turnover on the opposition.
There is another skill that I should have suggested in my first post: Grab. On blitzers and especially on the krox, Grab could potentially double the number of times your opponent has to risk DT/PT dodges during the game.
From that post, I'd say Meradanis' style is very different from the way I'd play Slann, and it's also quite different from what I gathered about Joemanji's style. Quite possibly better than either, but I think that mine would be the most fun. Well, Joemanji's would be the most fun, but only if the opposition throws the ball every round
[Edit]I reread Joemanji's post and it's not the one I thought it was. There's another post out there about making Slann into interception machines. That's what I was referring to when I said "Joemanji's style of playing". Though it mightn't have been Joemanji's post.. meh. Now you know.
[Second Edit]Slanns are all over the place today. Apparently it was bouf that I was thinking of before (sorry to bouf and Joemanji). http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/vie ... p?p=427948
Wrestle on blitzers is fair enough, if you're not going to use it just to avoid taking an armour roll. If you're pick-and-choosing your wrestle moments, of course it'll work.
The lack of reroll skills is indeed killing, and I was considering 11x (or maybe 12x) linemen just to afford a few more rerolls. But when I get to start a Slann team, I'm going to target the early-turnover way of playing. Slann can buy reroll skills easily enough, and will benefit from all of them. If you suffer a turnover the way I'd be playing, it's not too serious, because the ball is usually going to be in your TZ (failed catch, failed pick-up, failed GFI on ballcarrier, etc.), and that means you're going to have a good chance of inflicting a turnover on the opposition.
There is another skill that I should have suggested in my first post: Grab. On blitzers and especially on the krox, Grab could potentially double the number of times your opponent has to risk DT/PT dodges during the game.
From that post, I'd say Meradanis' style is very different from the way I'd play Slann, and it's also quite different from what I gathered about Joemanji's style. Quite possibly better than either, but I think that mine would be the most fun. Well, Joemanji's would be the most fun, but only if the opposition throws the ball every round
[Edit]I reread Joemanji's post and it's not the one I thought it was. There's another post out there about making Slann into interception machines. That's what I was referring to when I said "Joemanji's style of playing". Though it mightn't have been Joemanji's post.. meh. Now you know.
[Second Edit]Slanns are all over the place today. Apparently it was bouf that I was thinking of before (sorry to bouf and Joemanji). http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/vie ... p?p=427948
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GalakStarscraper
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Wow ... I definitely do not play Slann like Meradanis.
Leap is the rush of high stakes poker.
Bottom line if you are willing to play Slann like a Halfling team (balls to the walls) ... it can be amazing fun.
Now I don't recommend leaping all the time and every turn ... but I'll frequently leap with Blitzers and Linemen if performing the Leap is worth the gain that it will give me.
My skill picks.
I like Fend first and then Wrestle on Linemen. I like having one with Kick and Tackle as well. Another with Tackle is good.
Blitzers ... I like Wrestle and Strip Ball on them ... Shadowing if you get +1 MA.
Catchers ... Sure Hands.
====
Why Wrestle ... I play Slann like Elves. Instead of trying to crash through my opponent I try to just completely outmaneuver him. Leap is great for doing that and if your opponent is down you probably have a much better chance at getting where you want to go or safely leaping away to safety or in for the kill. That's why I believe in Wrestle. I also like Fend just because having my team mobile is a great blessing to making it work.
====
My normal play ... kick with the Kick Lineman ... line up the Catchers to come screaming in with 2+ leaps if the ball isn't picked up. And yes I'll risk my Catchers getting plastered to pop open a scramble on my opponent's side of the pitch for ball control.
If he has the ball ... Wrestle/Strip Ball Blitzer to blitz (with or without leap) to knock loose the ball ... count on the Sure Hands Catchers to recover it and either dodge or leap his way to safety.
My team is here:
http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/teamView.php?teamid=31
(both my Wrestle Linemen died during the last two games which is why you don't see them)
After 10 games I had a 70% win rate with them ... 7 wins / 3 losses.
Wins vs: Dwarf (twice), Ogre, Chaos Pact (twice), Wood Elf, Underworld
Losses vs: High Elf, Norse, Underworld
Leap is the rush of high stakes poker.
Bottom line if you are willing to play Slann like a Halfling team (balls to the walls) ... it can be amazing fun.
Now I don't recommend leaping all the time and every turn ... but I'll frequently leap with Blitzers and Linemen if performing the Leap is worth the gain that it will give me.
My skill picks.
I like Fend first and then Wrestle on Linemen. I like having one with Kick and Tackle as well. Another with Tackle is good.
Blitzers ... I like Wrestle and Strip Ball on them ... Shadowing if you get +1 MA.
Catchers ... Sure Hands.
====
Why Wrestle ... I play Slann like Elves. Instead of trying to crash through my opponent I try to just completely outmaneuver him. Leap is great for doing that and if your opponent is down you probably have a much better chance at getting where you want to go or safely leaping away to safety or in for the kill. That's why I believe in Wrestle. I also like Fend just because having my team mobile is a great blessing to making it work.
====
My normal play ... kick with the Kick Lineman ... line up the Catchers to come screaming in with 2+ leaps if the ball isn't picked up. And yes I'll risk my Catchers getting plastered to pop open a scramble on my opponent's side of the pitch for ball control.
If he has the ball ... Wrestle/Strip Ball Blitzer to blitz (with or without leap) to knock loose the ball ... count on the Sure Hands Catchers to recover it and either dodge or leap his way to safety.
My team is here:
http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/teamView.php?teamid=31
(both my Wrestle Linemen died during the last two games which is why you don't see them)
After 10 games I had a 70% win rate with them ... 7 wins / 3 losses.
Wins vs: Dwarf (twice), Ogre, Chaos Pact (twice), Wood Elf, Underworld
Losses vs: High Elf, Norse, Underworld
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stashman
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GalakStarscraper
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I did the same thing with my Halfling team in the PBeMBBL not so many years ago.stashman wrote:Broken?GalakStarscraper wrote:
After 10 games I had a 70% win rate with them ... 7 wins / 3 losses.
Wins vs: Dwarf (twice), Ogre, Chaos Pact (twice), Wood Elf, Underworld
Losses vs: High Elf, Norse, Underworld
Galak
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fen
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The Slaan Blitzers can take GAS skills right?
Well there are two Blitzer builds I'd seriously consider when you're basing from 7 3 3 8 Diving Tackle, Jump Up, Leap, Very Long Legs.
The first one I'd build would get Block, Mighty Blow, Piling On and then Tackle. Essentially this guy kills opposing catcher or thrower types stone dead wherever they are.
The second guy would be Block, Frenzy, Juggernaut and would be parked in the center of the pitch. When you position a guy with Frenzy and Leap in reach of either sideline it becomes very difficult for the opposing team to place their players anywhere within two squares of those sidelines. You can threaten a crowd push on either side and quite often the threat is all you need.
(Strip Ball would be a suitable fourth skill to increase his utility.)
The other two, well whatever floats your boat I guess.
Well there are two Blitzer builds I'd seriously consider when you're basing from 7 3 3 8 Diving Tackle, Jump Up, Leap, Very Long Legs.
The first one I'd build would get Block, Mighty Blow, Piling On and then Tackle. Essentially this guy kills opposing catcher or thrower types stone dead wherever they are.
The second guy would be Block, Frenzy, Juggernaut and would be parked in the center of the pitch. When you position a guy with Frenzy and Leap in reach of either sideline it becomes very difficult for the opposing team to place their players anywhere within two squares of those sidelines. You can threaten a crowd push on either side and quite often the threat is all you need.
(Strip Ball would be a suitable fourth skill to increase his utility.)
The other two, well whatever floats your boat I guess.
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tenwit
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I'd recommend either Side Step or Stand Firm on this guy before Frenzy. Once you've got frenzy, you're going to end up in dangerous places, and he's worth 150k after his second skill. You don't want to risk too many crowd pushes on that guy. Frenzy is good as a third skill, though.fen wrote:The second guy would be Block, Frenzy, Juggernaut and would be parked in the center of the pitch.
Also, frenziers tend to get picked on (in my experience). One of the strengths of this team is that it comes with DT on the blitzers. You want people to run away from them, so you can force a turnover. This is one of the reasons that wrestle can be worth the risk on these guys: wrestle encourages the opposition to run away rather than risk a block. If you've got frenzy, people are going to risk the block rather than risk being bllitzed next turn. That negates (to an extent) the power of DT.
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tenwit
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That's a fair call, but even without going near the sidelines, you're still risking a fair bit by putting such an expensive player in the position of having to make two blocks if possible. Given that he has A access for free, side step is a valuable addition to a frenzying slann blitzer.
But as you say, perhaps frenzy first. Given that he already has block at this point, I'd defer the (always useful) juggernaut until after side step.
But as you say, perhaps frenzy first. Given that he already has block at this point, I'd defer the (always useful) juggernaut until after side step.
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DamianTheLost
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So I guess two blitzers would go something like fens route, and the other two could go wrestle, strip ball, dodge, side step, tackle/guard. Still I feel the team needs a bit of guard earlier in the game to help caging and defending more.fen wrote:The Slaan Blitzers can take GAS skills right?
Well there are two Blitzer builds I'd seriously consider when you're basing from 7 3 3 8 Diving Tackle, Jump Up, Leap, Very Long Legs.
The first one I'd build would get Block, Mighty Blow, Piling On and then Tackle. Essentially this guy kills opposing catcher or thrower types stone dead wherever they are.
The second guy would be Block, Frenzy, Juggernaut and would be parked in the center of the pitch. When you position a guy with Frenzy and Leap in reach of either sideline it becomes very difficult for the opposing team to place their players anywhere within two squares of those sidelines. You can threaten a crowd push on either side and quite often the threat is all you need.
(Strip Ball would be a suitable fourth skill to increase his utility.)
The other two, well whatever floats your boat I guess.
What about catcher skills? Sure hands sounds solid, because they should be the main ball carriers. Doubles could get you a decent passing game with AG 4. Also two of them could go pass block and become insane intercept. I kind of like the side step idea across the sidelines but this demands a passing game.
I never had any wrestling players before. Aren't they difficult to skill up?
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GalakStarscraper
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In regards to asking are Wrestle players difficult to skill up:
I've found my Blitzer score almost more than my Catchers do. The extra point of ST has usually been more important for viable scoring than the extra point of AG.
In my current team ... the players that I have ... the Blitzer have scored 10 TDs vs the Catchers 7.
Galak
I've found my Blitzer score almost more than my Catchers do. The extra point of ST has usually been more important for viable scoring than the extra point of AG.
In my current team ... the players that I have ... the Blitzer have scored 10 TDs vs the Catchers 7.
Galak
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