Talk Fantasy Football

After choosing Chaos as my very first Blood Bowl team, I knew I was in for a rough ride. Chaos are a very unforgiving starting team, and tend to suffer alot against well skilled teams. This wasn't helped in the slightest by the fact I was facing off against teams that had already played half a dozen games in the league!

Undaunted, I chose my team:

The Frostmane Ravagers

#1 Chaos Warrior - 'Rend' Zrkat
#2 Chaos Warrior - Molz'th
#3 Chaos Warrior - Grok
#4 Beastman - Vilgor
#5 Beastman - Reth
#6 Beastman - Qze
#7 Beastman - Bor
#8 Beastman - Litzert
#9 Beastman - Ri
#10 Beastman - Yenlit
#11 Beastman - Tylenzrq

Rerolls: 3
Fan Factor: 4

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Match #1 - Wood Elves

My first opponent was essentially my teacher, but he wasn't going to hold back his punches. His team rating was over 150 already, and his two Catchers were the bane of other players in the league.

I did, however, get a huge wad of cash in inducements. This bought me a total of 3 rerolls and 2 bribes. I was prepared to take a beating, but determined to give one in return...

Suprisingly things didn't go so badly. The game ended 1-3 (yes, I actually managed to score!), and I managed to injure his star Catcher with a dirty foul (though only a miss the rest of the match result - he understandably used his Apothecary!). With the single Completion and Touchdown one of my Beastmen managed, he received his first advancement and received a Big Hand (possibly, on retrospect, not the best choice - but he did actually have a big hand conversion on him already, so it was very fitting), and the team received 50k in winnings. An Apothecary it is then!

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Match #2 - Wood Elves

Yes, the same team. Due to some confusion we played again (and, no offense to him, I hope the last time for at least another few weeks!), and I again received a huge stack of cash for inducements - three rerolls, one bribe and a Bloodweiser Babe.

Things didn't go so well this game. I lost 0-4 and had one of my Beastmen missing the next game, and received no advancements at all! A mere 30k in winnings left me with nothing worthwhile to buy for the next match. But at least I've not lost any players, yet.

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Match #3 - Humans

A little better. These humans were a big more balanced, and were 'only' giving me 260k in inducements (2 rerolls and a Bloodweiser Babe again). He did, however, have a Linesman with S5! Very lucky rolling indeed, and a real thorn in my side all game...

The match was brutal, and the Chaos Gods were pleased. However, the Chaos Gods are also fickle, and seemed to be cheering the other side instead. One Beastman and one Chaos Warrior were injured (only missing the rest of the match, thank the darkness!) and two Beastmen were knocked out - in the first half! The Bloodweiser Babe didn't seem to impress them though, and I rolled terrible dice for bringing them back into the match (either that or they were faking it so they could drink more Bloodweiser...). So I started the second half 0-2 down with only six players on the pitch! This half wasn't so bad, and I managed to get away with no more losses (bar another two touchdowns, making it 0-4 in total).

With no losses I counted myself lucky, and two of my Beastmen received advancements (+1MA on one with a double 5, and Tackle on the other). I gained a Fan Factor (the fans obvious enjoyed the carnage!) and received a terrible 20k in winnings (so still nothing to buy yet...). But with a few extra skills...

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Match #4 - Orcs

Brutal. Very brutal. By far the closest game I've had so far. These Orcs were brand new rookies, so I gave them a small inducement (which gave them a single reroll). They had 4 Black Orcs, 4 Blitzers, 1 Thrower, 1 Goblin and a Troll. Luckily, I rolled a Blizzard for the weather, so no throwing teammates!

Swiftly the game turned into a slugging match, with the Troll battering my Chaos Warriors (and not really doing much to them, thanks to their awesome armour), and my team battering his Blitzers and Black Orcs. A swift and cheeky foul from my +1MA Beastman caused him to be sent off. The Blitzer he kicked, however, was swiftly nailed into a coffin (very nasty - death was rolled, and then rerolled as death again due to the (useless!) Apothecary's tender care)! One of his Black Orcs slipped up while trying to run and injured himself (missing the rest of the game), and two of the Blitzers were knocked out. The Goblin, however, managed to slip through my lines and scored, despite my best efforts to smash him into the dirt (6 Beastmen enough? Nope!)! I swiftly equalised, however, with a quick blitz through his lines with my Big Hand Beastman, and the half ended.

Getting his Blitzers back due to his Babe, we set up for the second half. And a riot started. Swell, three turns down the drain! The ball scattered right next to the Scrim, and a utterly useless attempt to pick it by by the Orc Catcher (double 1's...) ment an almost instant turnover. I smashed my way to the ball, but was unable to pick it up (gah!). The Goblin then dives in, grabs the ball and rockets out towards the End Zone. Completely unable to halt him, he then scores again with only three turns remaining!

Receiving and only have three turns to score, things were pretty grim. The Goblin cheekily tried to get the ball off me again, but was finally smashed to the ground and knocked out by one of my angry Beastmen. On the final turn I attempted throw a Long Bomb to a Beastman waiting halfway up the Orc's half...but it came up short and bounced the wrong way. Game over, 1-2!

A loss, but a costly one for the Orcs. With a dead Blitzer he was forced to spend all his winnings on replacing him, but his Goblin advanced and received Sure Feet. My Big Hand, gaining yet another MVP award, advanced again and I gave him Block. I received a very decent 70k in winnings, but I lost my Fan Factor that I gained in the previous match.

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So after four matches, my team looks like this:

#1 Chaos Warrior - 'Rend' Zrkat
#2 Chaos Warrior - Molz'th
#3 Chaos Warrior - Grok
#4 Beastman - Vilgor
#5 Beastman - Reth
#6 Beastman - Qze
#7 Beastman - Bor *6 SPP, +1 movement*
#8 Beastman - Litzert *1 SPP*
#9 Beastman - Ri *6 SPP, Tackle*
#10 Beastman - Yenlit
#11 Beastman - Tylenzrq *19 SPP, Big Hand mutation, Block*

Rerolls: 3
Fan Factor: 4
Apothecary
Treasury: 110k
Team Rating: 117

With 110k to spend, I'm considering a fourth Chaos Warrior to boost the great job they are already doing, or to start moulding him into a Blitzer type scorer to work with my Beastmen.

I'm half tempted to save up for a Minotaur, but considering how unreliable they are I think I'll wait a while until I make the plunge. I'm also tempted to get a Cheerleader, to help with Cheering Fans that I'm sure to get soon (not had it yet...). Though it may be best to save it in case of any losses in the near future.

So, how is my team looking? I know I've lost all four games, but I expected that. My team probably won't win a game for another four or five games, but once I start getting a good set of skills I should start to edge back in this league, slowly but surely.

Any suggestions on future advancements or purchases?

~Andromidius

why dont you use starplayers or Mercs, or a wizard (nothing like zapping a wardancer)

you have 3 rerolls, Lord Borak or a Merc minotaur is lots more fun.

No Star Players allowed.

Besides, it feels a little cheap relying solely on a hired uber-player to win you games. Not to mention you'll get little actual benefit out of it in the long run - better to get your standard team working together, in my opinion.

~Andromidius

There shouldn't be any considering involved. Cross off 100K and write an extra Chaos Warrior onto your roster.

You should also start spreading around your TDs onto the Chaos Warriors. 2 TDs = Block for a Chaos Warrior, that's all you need to start bashing like crazy with them.

I echo Fen there. Score with guys who haven't improved, preferably those with 3 or more SPP.

You need more Block. Tackle is a good toolbox skill, but you're not really ready to build your toolbox yet, as you lack sufficient Block.

Yep. Buy the Chaos Warrior right now. On offense, start using your Warriors as fullbacks, build a cage and start pounding your way down the field. Score points with them. Get them skilled up. They should all get block, and then a combination of things. At least one should have mighty blow.

Your beastmen you have to develope into skill players. When you get a skill up with one and roll doubles, you should seriously consider turning him into a passer. Others, give other skill skills to. Catch, dodge, whatever. Depends on what you already have and what the other teams are in your league. But that is essential, to develope role players. A beastman with block, tackle and strip ball makes a great striker against ball carriers. That sort of thing.

Chaos is more a beat down kind of team, both on offense and defense. The best Chaos player I ever knew figured if he won the casualty game, he'd win the game. He was almost always 1st or 2nd in every league and tournement I ever played him.

On defense, use the Warriors as linebackers. Don't commit them until the other guy has already commited to going one way or the other.

And, don't try making something out of nothing. Don't roll a bunch of risky dice. Put the other guy in a position to where he has to do it. Saves your guys from falling down on dodges and makes him fall down on dodges.

Good luck to you. Keep the updates coming.

I've learned the half way not to attempt single dice blocks (except when I really, really have to), and to keep my players shoulder to shoulder to force my opponants to use multiple assists to get even a single dice block.

Block is first on my list for the Chaos Warriors, since I'm sick of rolling 'Both Down' and 'Push Back'. I want to throw people to the ground, not push them away!

I'm going to try and get a second Tackle on a Beastman so I can have one standing on either side of the pitch to try and to stop anyone trying to slide into my half. And then, if they get another still, I'll give them either Prehensile Tail or Diving Tackle, depending how lucky I am with the advancement rolls. And after that, Block.

And yeah, I'll add another Chaos Warrior to the roster. It'll be nice to actually have someone sitting on the Reserves bench for once...

~Andromidius

Andromidius wrote:I'm going to try and get a second Tackle on a Beastman so I can have one standing on either side of the pitch to try and to stop anyone trying to slide into my half. And then, if they get another still, I'll give them either Prehensile Tail or Diving Tackle, depending how lucky I am with the advancement rolls. And after that, Block.

I don't think this is wise. If you're not used to using Chaos you should take Block first on every player who's not designated a dedicated ball handler. Tackle is a 2nd or 3rd pick skill for Chaos, you can live without it if you have plenty of Block.

I don't think I can improve on Fen's advice expect disallowing star players hurts some teams (like Chaos, stunties etc) while making little difference to other teams (Elves say).

Not something I'd advise in a league, especially with a mix of old & new teams.

Well I still think I need Tackle. Those Elves are moving through my lines far too easily, and removing their dodge reroll will make them think twice.

If there's weren't quite so many Elves in this league then I'd wholeheartedly agree with needing Block first. Every other Beastman and Chaos Warrior will get it, bar the one more Tackle Beastman.

Hopefully more then one of my Beastmen will get an advancement next game, so I can have the best of both worlds.

~Andromidius

If you have Tackle but no Block they'll simply blitz the players with Tackle and then move through the gap. Tackle isn't worth getting first ever. It just doesn't work without Block to back it up. Even a halfway decent coach will single out your tackle players for special treatment and blitz or crowd surf them. Teams without Dodge are even more of a problem as your Tackle players are worse than unskilled players.

My record vs Elf teams over the past few games have been all wins or draws (Last time I lost to an Elf team was in 2007, Wood Elves with over 1 million higher in TV). This is with both Chaos and Nurgle teams that have no Tackle on them at all. You don't worry about them dodging, instead you concentrate on 2 and 3 dice blocks plus fouls on key players or crowd surfing players without side step.

Having a Block, Tackle beastman or two is great. But you want them in that order, not the other way round.

It's your team, but Tackle is not a first pick skill for someone who doesn't start with Block. Tackle is worse than Block vs. Elves and about three billion times worse than Block against everyone else.

Andromidius wrote:I'm going to try and get a second Tackle on a Beastman so I can have one standing on either side of the pitch to try and to stop anyone trying to slide into my half.

Dude, maybe you should be running an Orc team. Chaos have all kinds of nifty development options, but except maybe one Extra Arms or Sure Hands player (Big Hand is a nice addition to that guy), you should just go Block on every player for the first skill until you've got 5 or 6 of them. Then you can diversify and start getting those cool complementary skills.

Or play Orcs. They can get started on the toolbox right away, even if they have slightly fewer options long-term.

Block, block, block, block, block. Starting to sound like some kind of Gregorian chant around here. Gets old. The really bad part about it is that it is so true. Chaos needs block. No way around it. Otherwise, those beastmen are going to be on their butts and not having a chance to use tackle. At the least, give them wrestle. Then worry about tackle and the other skills.

The only time a beastman skills up the first time and doesn't get block is if you roll a double or a stat increase. If you roll a stat, don't even think about it, take the stat. +MA, +AG, +ST can be the start of a starplayer for you. On doubles, you need to think offense. Chaos can always get defensive skills. Every player on your team can take strength and general. Get at least 3 beastmen with block and stand firm. Get a couple with block and tackle. The rest of them try to get offensive skills for. Sure hands, that sort of thing.

And those Warriors, make at least 2 defensive specialists and the rest offensive specialist. I would get enough pass skills to make that a real threat, just to keep the opposition defense honest, but your strength will be in the running game.

whitetiger wrote:The only time a beastman skills up the first time and doesn't get block is if you roll a double or a stat increase.

And the first improvement on the second beastman to skill up. He gets Kick.

Obviously.

If you've got three or four Beastmen with Block, I think you can start diversifying. Frankly, if you've got just one Block guy, you can get one toolbox skill (like Extra Arms, Sure Hands or Kick) on the second one. But the next toolbox opportunity you get is on a second up or on your fifth BM to improve.

At least that's how I see it. I'd totally be willing to make an exception on stat increases (any +stat is great for a Beastman) and maybe doubles, but barring that, you need Block.

Fen's bang-on with that hesitation about Tackle before Block... unless you're really worried about Blodge, in which case a single Tackle safety (you only need one if you drop him deep and center him) can do you some good. However, vs. Dodge with no Block, Block is actually better than Tackle, as on 2d (36 total perms) you pick up the 9 perms of KD Tackle gets you (in addition to your native 11 for the open pow that everybody gets), but trade 3 perms of turnover for 3 perms of push, and then against non-Block non-Dodgers, it's seven free perms of Pow, plus the greatly reduced turnover chances. Even against Blodge, it's only better when you're the one doing the hitting: when you're being hit, Block knocks those 7 perms off of your opponent's shot on you, reducing their odds by more than a quarter (from 15/20 to ~11/20).

Two Tacklers, unfortunately, is a luxury, and Tacklers without Block don't slow elves down (though, like I said, one as a deep safety is ok vs. Wood Elves and anybody who relies on Blodge). Even then, that makes Tackle your one-and-only toolbox selection until you've got four Block BMs... at least, that's how I see it.

That prescription of 4 BMs with Block, that doesn't even include Block on the Warriors. In addition to 4 of your first 5 BMs, Block should automatically be the first skill for at least the first 2 Warriors to go up, and maybe for the other two as well.