High Elves

Thor · Post by **Thor** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 4:22 pm

I am considering fielding a team of High Elves. I don't see alot of posts about how to play them. Does that mean that HE suck and nobody uses them? Anyway I like the high AG and decent AV (relative to woodies or rats).

Does anyone have some good plays (offensive & defensive) they could share? Ideas on a starting line up?

Thanks!

longfang · Post by **longfang** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 4:27 pm

Always remember to eat lots of Boot!

HE's are alright but your Avatar ROCKS!

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 4:31 pm

i played high elves for many seasons, and i thoroughly enjoyed the team... you get a lot of flexibility with them, but if you roll like i do, you will fail a lot of those 2+ dodges...

my suggestion for a starting lineup probably won't be seconded by the masses, but i'd tell you to take 11 linemen, 5 rerrolls, and a 5 fan factor. you can't afford the rerolls later, you need them from the start, and your linemen are as good at catching and throwing th ball as you need players to be... then save up for catchers (i refuse to call them lion warriors)...

my other suggestion would be that no turn is over for a high elf team until someone gets an spp for a quick pass... throw that pill around, you'll notice the results...

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 4:45 pm

Playing them in the MBBL, the upcoming Spiky Open Tourney and very probably the Blood Bowl next year.
Some discussion here:
viewtopic.php?t=1581

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 5:12 pm

Lucien Swift wrote:my suggestion for a starting lineup probably won't be seconded by the masses, but i'd tell you to take 11 linemen, 5 rerrolls, and a 5 fan factor.

The maths doesn't work here:
11*70 + 5*50 + 5*10 = 1070gp.

Do you mean 11 linemen, 3 re-rolls and FF8? That is a lineup I would seriously consider playing next time. (More re-rolls would be nice, but FF3 is *way* too low)

I've played a high elf team in Galak's MBBL2 for two seasons now. My initial lineup was 2 DWs, 9 line-elves, 2 RRs (actually 3 because we were using the gold rules when we started) and FF7.

My results have been mixed: Played 11, won 6, lost 5, though the last 3 games were good: 3 wins with scores of 4-0, 3-0 and 3-0.

Cheers,
Martyn

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 5:16 pm

see, this is why i leave the math to other people.... even if i had it stuck in my head that the linemen are 60k (which i might have) the match still deosn't work....

i think i meant to say 11linemen, 4 rerolls and a 3 fan factor, but oddsa re good that's wrong too...

i definitely started with either 4 or 5 rerolls one way or another...

and you should too...

Thor · Post by **Thor** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 9:10 pm

Thanks for the link (Deathwing) and the ideas (others) for the starting line up. What about plays that work? For example, have you had success with keeping the ball carrier in a cage formation (surrounded by protecting elves) for a few turns while your receivers make their way down the field, then pass it to a receiver and run? Reversals? Sweeps? Run up the side line? Others? What has worked well for you HE coaches out there (offensive & defensive)?

cani · Post by **cani** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 9:37 pm

I started a High Elf team a while back in order to be able to compare them with Wood Elf teams.

My starting linup was:
2 Dragon Warriors
1 Thrower
4 Lion Warriors
4 Lineelves
8 Fan Factor

There are both strengths and weaknesses in this.

Weaknesses:
- You don't have any rerolls and they cost 100.000 afterwards.
- You don't have any apothecary and with 4 lion warriors with AV7 this is a risk

Strengths:
- You don't need that many rerolls as you have position players with personal rerolls (and block for the dragon warriors) for the important tasks.
- With 8 FF you can afford an apothecary after game 1
- With ST3 your lion warriors are not that weak even if they are catchers

All in all. My team have only lost 1 match total.

This lineup also gives you the possibility of the following strategy when on offence:

Block down your opponents LOS and blitz one of the players standing away from the LOS, so that you create a clear hole and you don't need to dodge through.
Now your thrower gets the ball and lop it to a lion warrior.
Now your 4 lion warriors and remaning line elves run through the hole and off to one of the sidelines and create a wall of players and tackle zones around the lion warrior with the ball. Your lion warriors high movement makes this possible.
In your opponents turn he has but two choices: 1) Blitz one of the players surrounding your catcher and try a surround him with a lot of players (this is not easy as he should be able to dodge away on 2+ or in worst case 3+. 2) Dodge through your wall (at least two 3+ dodges with elves or 4+ with ag3 players) and blitz your lion warrior - most likely with one block dice only (1/3 chance of goin down).

This play is only possible if you get the 4 lion warriors as these are the only players on the high team with better than decent movement (7+).

In conclusion: if I would start my team over again, I would choose the same lineup. Having no rerolls from the start has cost me a minimum of turnovers and these being on times where it didn't matter that much. A lineup consisting of only lineelves simply doesn't have the movement og the skills to be successful I think.

This being said; having tested High Elves I would definately choose Wood Elves over High Elves any time. Their higher movement, war dancer, and perhaps most important of all possibility of a big guy is invaluable. Their AV7 is not that much of a problem - then again I play in a league where fouls happen only 1-2 times during a game.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 9:42 pm

If you think I'm going to post all my offensive plays on here within days of some "high-kudos-bragging-rights" friendlies and weeks of a pretty major tourney with NAF rankings at stake...well...

Actually any half decent coach should have no problem with a decent scoring rate, I'm probably weaker on defence with them. Then again my Helf League experience is very short term so far or geared towards tournies, so I'm nowhere near shadowing or passblock skills yet..how long is a piece of string?

One point though, a MA8 ST3 player is awesome on defence. I intend with my League team to hopefully eventually develop a couple of Lion Warriors into defensive specialists. That's if the MBBL collectively stop killing my players.

Vesticle · Post by **Vesticle** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:17 pm

Personally, I'd never even consider starting a team with less than 2 TRRs. Then, with an elf team especially, I'd never consider starting with low FF. I tend to prefer to take FF9, and in general, I'd say not to take FF below 7. For a couple reasons: A) Elves are expensive, so you need that income. B) Elves are expensive, so it's expensive to replace them if you get an injury from a PI or Throw-a-rock. Even though it's a 1/36 chance, it means on average, you'll probably see a PI every 6 games... (assuming an average of 2 TDs for each team, per game)

Now personally, I orignally started with a couple Lion Warriors, and a Dragon Warrior, and a Phoenix Warrior. Didn't work well, with elves you really don't need those positional players. And it'd be better to spread out your SPP rather than winding up having your Lion Warriors suck them all up right off the bat.

The most successful I've been is in taking mostly linemen, 2 RRs, 7-9FF and then spending the rest on Dragon Warriors, and maybe a Phoenix Warrior (since it's only 10k up from a lineman, and I find that intially pass is a more important skill because of distance modifiers). Some people would say to take an Apoth off the bat, but I'm generally willing to risk one game without it with High Elves.

Anyway, so you could go:
9 Linemen
1 Dragon Warrior
1 Phoenix Warrior
2 TRRs
9 FF

or:
9 Linemen
2 Dragon Warriors
2 TRRs
7 FF

And those would be the 2 lineups I'd suggest, personally. Then for development, you should probably pick up an Apoth first, and then add positional players. Try to spread the SPP out, and you can buy Lion Warriors late, since it's almost automatic to get them skills. Elves wind up being one of the easiest teams to use to score with your linemen, so do it. If they get 2 skills, they can get the blodge combination, and have a variety of skills to choose from aside from that. Your Dragon Warriors can pick up Blodge with just one skill, and then move on to annoyances like Shadowing, Sidestep, and Strip Ball. Your Lion Warriors, even though they're the equivalent of other's frail catchers, shouldn't be forgotten, since they're still ST3 even though they're MA8.

And uh... well, I guess that's it for now...

Valen · Post by **Valen** » Fri Oct 04, 2002 9:18 am

I have had two very successfull seasons with my HE team (lost just two league games in the two seasons), My starting line up I cannot remember to be honest, but I can help you with tactics.

Offence

Line up one lion warrior with either a lineman or a dragon warrior on one side, put your other lion warrior right on the edge of the wing (not in the front line), three lineman on the front line, with the rest scattered in the backfield. Your first turn get both your lion warriors in your opponents half, you can blitz with either your lineman/DW or use him as an assist to blitz with your LW, then carry on into the middle of the field, run the other one through the hole created and straight up the wing (now both LW have good field position and seperated). Now pick the ball up and surround you ball carrier with all your other players. Dodge your front line back to give further protection. Your opponent can only blitz one LW the other can dodge free into the endzone to score on your next turn, I regularly score 5/6 TD's a gmane using this simple tactic.

Deffence

Do not let the opposition get into a cage, if you do you are in trouble, the only way you can defend against this is to use leap and strip ball, but even this is not fool proof. I train up two of my four LW's to defence (Strip Ball, Tackle, Guard, Leap) and my two DW's. These players jobs are to get round the side and hit the ball carrier before the cage can be formed, this is your best chance of defence.

Conclusion

Avoid hand to hand contact unless it is completly nessecary, if you allow yourself to be dragged into a scrap, YOU WILL LOSE

, so dont do it.

Try it out.

Remco · Post by **Remco** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 9:25 pm

My favourite starting line-up for HE:

1 Phoenix Warrior
10 Lineman
3 RR
7 FF

After game 1 buy a apoth (you'll need it).

Why this set-up? Basically, if you buy position players early on, they'll get all the SPP BECAUSE they're good at what they do. I've played 14 games now, and my 2 DW, 2 LW and 1 PW are have 150 SPP out of 220 on the whole team. If you start with a lot of line-man, they'll get skills much faster in the beginning. Block/dodge on a line-elf is great, but you'll need a couple of them to be effective with them.

Why a Phoenix Warrior? First of all, of all the position players he'll get the least SPP (only pass action, 1 SPP per completed pass). Second of all, passing is about the only thing you'll need to do on a regular basis that involves a die roll of more than 2+. All other things (dodge, catch, block) will do at 2+ most of the time. To keep from burning those re-rolls, you'll need Pass.

With this starting line-up your start will be tricky (MA 6 on all your players), but on the long run it will pay off.

In my first season, I won 1 match and drew 1 (out of 6) in the regular season, I lost the semi-final (we only have four coaches in this league) and I won the 3rd place.

In the second season, I've gone 4-2 in the regular season, thanks to my DW's, a LW an my PW. The only thing I regret is not letting my line-elves do some work. They really need more skills to stay alive.

christer · Post by **christer** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 10:24 pm

I'm coaching a High Elf team in FUMBBL which has done pretty well.

They started out with only 1 reroll, which turned out to be a huge mistake. They lost the two first matches they played.. After those two games I could afford to buy a second reroll. Haven't lost a game since then (20 games straight).

Regarding the phoenix warriors, you should take every chance you get to score with them. A developed phoenix warrior is a great asset in the team.

Oh, and if you want to see the roster, check it out at

Troubleshooters

-- Christer

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Oct 06, 2002 12:42 am

Thor wrote:For example, have you had success with keeping the ball carrier in a cage formation (surrounded by protecting elves) for a few turns while your receivers make their way down the field, then pass it to a receiver and run? Reversals? Sweeps? Run up the side line? Others? What has worked well for you HE coaches out there (offensive & defensive)?

On offense you can move around so easily there is no point playing a cage - keep the defense loose and fast which will tend to generate more opportunties on offense than a tight slow moving cage.

On defence you've got S3 across the board so don't forget that you can blitz with your lions as easily as your line elves or dragons. I personnally prefer a quite violent defence as you high AG allows you to concentrate your players effectively. Standing off will lose you games and you have enough Av to put up a decent fight against most teams.

Ian

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:04 am

i have to make about all my tactics and what i think about HE.
i ll try to say it shortly here without getting all my keys

(spiky is coming soon!!)
Linelf: very good lineplayers, they can score, they can protect the ball carrier and they can go into the fight.
PW:my offensive way of play is pass so i take 1 ,always!!!! They are very great thrower (first skill=>accurate)
DW: These are your blitzers, they have to blitz and get out of the fight.
During the first games ,they will be the defence clues!
LW:One of the best players that Bloodbowl has created.But for a long tournament, i will not take them at the beginning.Let the linelf and DW get skilled and when LW will appear they will get spp very quickly.

RR: You have to start with 2 minimum to get a chance.
Apo:generally i take one (Elf are cost a lot!!)
FF: i generally dont take a lot.

Rosters:
Long tournament:
8 linelf=>560
1PW => 80
2DW =>200
1 apo => 50
2RR =>100
1pop => 10
total=>1.000
Sounds nice for me.

Short Tournament like Dam:
1PW=> 80
2LW=>180
2DW=>200
6line=>420
2RR =>100
2pop => 20
Total=>1.000

general advices:
Always have 1 or 2 players minimum in position of scoring if they catch the ball (we never know) even in defence (your opponent will have to get players on them.
Sometimes it is better to fail a dodge and dont use a Team RR. (those damn '1')
HE are strong and agil players so if you are stronger=>fight, if not dodge.
Dont forget that ALL your players are good in ST, AG,AR so they ALL do everything (block,pass,catch,dodge....)

Off sequence:
As i ve done to Longfang, i love to have only my thrower in my mid-field...
your opponent will be confused in defence.
Let your DW out of tackle zone if possible, they will do the blitz that can free a catcher!
Dont forget that you can PASS AND HAND-OFF!
Try as possible to play time clock against a strong team.

Def sequence
Your PW backfield in case of you can get the ball and throw it to the other side.
Your DW on linebackers.
LW, if you take some to go on the ball carrier.
I like agressive defence.
Be patient against strong team, let them come slowly and try to get a breack with blitzers. AG4 is cool to get on ball carrier.
Against an other quick or Agil team,go on a deep defence with always your LW on counter-attack.

Ok, i talk too much...Good luck

HE rocks