Talk Fantasy Football

Salutations Readers,

I have not played many Tournaments and was thinking of giving my Orcs a try at the Tritex Challenge. What skills (and in what order) should I pick?

I was thinking of giving
Lineorc Kick
Troll Block or Guard
Trower Block or +St
Blizers/Bobs a mix of Guard, Tackle and MB, or maybe a St 5 BOB


Rules
This is a TR 110 tournament. This means you may build your team with 1,100,000 Gold Coins
Skill Advancements
Before the first game: A normally accessible skill may be given to 1 player.
Before game 2 a normally accessible skill may be given to 2 players.
Before game 3 1 player may receive a skill as if they received a doubles roll or 2 players may be given a normally accessible skill.
Before game 4 1 player may receive a Stat increase STR, AG, AV or MV (this cannot be a player who has already received a skill thus far) or 2 players may receive a skill as if a doubles roll or 3 players may be given a normally accessible skill.
Before game 5 One player may receive a 2nd normally accessible skill (I.e. 1 player only may now have 2 skills) or 1 player may receive a skill as if they received a doubles roll.
Before game 6 1 player may receive a skill as if they received a doubles roll or 2 players may be given a normally accessible skill.


Planned Team
4x Blizers 320
4x BOB 320
1x Troll 110
1x Trower 70
1x Goblin 40
1x Lineorc 50
3x Reroll 180
1x FF 10

I love the topic being opened just wouldn't be fair to make a comment

I still just say what I always say though, you get an awful lot for your money with orcs and with the skill advancement these guys can get very nasty.

I feel that:

320 4 BOBs
320 4 Bltzers
110 Troll
150 3 Linos
180 3 rerolls
20 1 AC & 1CL

is the best TV110 team.

Skills wise I'd be thinking:

Before game 1: Sure Hands on a Blitzer
Before game 2: Frenzy on a Blitzer, Guard on the Troll
Before game 3: Guard on 2 BOBs
Before game 4: Guard on 2 BOBs, Tackle on a Blitzer
Before game 5: Mighty Blow on the Tackle Blitzer
Before game 6: Guard on a Blitzer, Wrestle on a lino

I'd avoid Kick as you have very little chance of retrieving the ball before an opponent even with a good kick and a blitz kick off result.

I would probably take the extra 20k and replace a lineman with a Thrower, otherwise i wouldn't argue too much on lineup.

Then it's Block and Guard for the skills. Boring I know, but it can be very effective.

If star players are available I had a good run with Varag at Strongbowl. While for variety a dodging blitzer can be fun.

Besters

I've had a lot of fun with:

4 blitzers (mandatory)
3 BOBs (quite playable)

2 lineorcs
3 goblins
1 troll
3 RR
2 AC
2 CL

I would now probably go for 1 thrower, 1 linorc, or drop a lineorc and the "staff" and get the 4th BOB, or go for 2 throwers...

3 gobbos are quite good --> they extent tackle zones, are small enough to go places (stunty + dodge will do that), you can spare 1 for a foul or 2, you can use them for a 1 turner, ...
IMHO it will give your team a tad more speed, even if they are fragile.
Use sparingly among dwarves though, otherwise they are quite ok-ish.

3 BOBs are most of the time enough to give your opponent a hard time getting them down. 3 RRs are needed in tournamentplay with Orcs (or, at the last, VERY handy).
Leaving the 4th BOB home will give you more cash for more options. It's not that you want to win a RR on the kickoff table, it's more like denying your opponent one.

I'm not the best Orc coach out there, but see if the advise helps.

or go for:

4 bob
4 blitz
1 thrower
2 gobs
1 troll
3 rr
1 ff
1 ac
1 cl

JaM wrote:3 gobbos are quite good -->

I like the idea of multipul Goblins, and I could always give one +St which would make him good at getting into Cages for a 1d Block...

Game 1: Block on Thrower vs Blizer with Sure Hands
Game 2: Guard on BOB x2
Game 3: Frenzy & Tackle on Blizers
Game 4: +St on Goblin? Probably better with skills, but this might be more fun... Perhaps Block on Troll & Dirty Player on Goblin.
Game 5 & 6: ??


Planned Team
4x Blizers 320
4x BOB 320
1x Troll 110
1x Trower 70
2x Goblin 80
3x Reroll 180
2x FF 20

Team...

At 110 its tempting to go with the goblin & troll for the TTM opportunities and its a valid choice. So if you want that your first line up is fine.

Skills - I'd forget kick. Orcs are too slow to exploit it properly.

1st: Frenzy on Blitzer
2nd: 2x BOB Guard
3rd: Troll block
4th: +ST Blitzer
5th: MB Blitzer either Frenzy or +ST Blitzer
6th: Thrower KoR or Block, BOB Guard

Thanks Ian, I quite like that

Although I might go with Block on a BoB rather than St 4 Blizer. It is slightly weaker due to lower movement however it frees up a couple of extra skills for Guard/Tackle on the other Blizers or DP on the Lineo if I find myself fouling a lot.

Actually I missed that about 3 normal skills in round 4.

I love having 4 guarding BOBs so...

1) Frenzy on Blitzer
2) 2x Guard BOB
3) Troll Block
4) 2x Guard BOB, Thrower leader or Tackle blitzer
5) MB on the frenzy or tackle blitzer
6) MB or tackle on blitzer

1.1M (110 @ 10kea) resurrection tourney with lots of skills

1 Troll: 11
4 BOB: 32
4 Blitzer: 32
2 Thrower: 14
1 Goblin: 4
1 Line-Orc: 5
2 Re-Rolls: 12

Two Throwers is because the extra instance of SH is valuable, and because Leader after game 1 is easy in this format. Also, with MA5 Throwers you can't cover the defensive backfield with both. 13 players is so you can foul once your oppo goes man-down, and so you don't get outnumbered if your oppo gets a freak turn of armor rolls or something.

Do you know your opponent before you pick the skill? If not, do you know the team balance of the tournament? Either way, you'll want a Guard Troll early, but if you know your first oppo is Wood Elves or Amazons, go for a Tackle Blitzer first.

I suggest going for quantity when it comes to improvements on this team: don't take doubles or stats: you don't need them as much as you just need old fashioned G and S skills. And don't bother with Kick: you're not fast enough given the format (though it is a good late skill on the safety-Thrower in a league).

What's the elimination structure? Are you guaranteed a certain number of games? Can you lose a game and still go on to win the tournament?

Assuming you know nothing about your opponent beforehand, my advice is to open Game 1 with a Leader Thrower. If you know he's bashy, open with a Guard Troll. If you know he's speedy, open with a Tackle or Frenzy Blitzer.

mattgslater wrote: Do you know your opponent before you pick the skill?

What's the elimination structure?
Are you guaranteed a certain number of games?
Can you lose a game and still go on to win the tournament?

No.

No elimination structure, it's a swiss style tournament so you will get 6 games and after the 5th game the two coaches with the highest points are playing for 1st & 2nd.

The details are in the Tournie posting section.

Debates hotting up

Not many tournaments are elimination structure as its not really fun to pay money to play and get kicked right out.

Best strategy as you see above is to map out your teams with all skills you can achieve along the way. luck still plays a large team but the right team choices with carefully calculated skills makes a lot of difference.

In that case, since you don't know your oppo and can't get eliminated in round 1, here's what I would do.

Before Game #...

1: Thrower with Leader, so you have 3RR.
2: Troll with Guard, Blitzer with Tackle, so you've got something for everyone.
3: Two Blitzers with Stand Firm to hold the corners*.
4: Two BOBs with Block or Stand Firm**, one Blitzer with Frenzy.
5: Blitzer with Tackle gets Grab or Blitzer with Frenzy gets Juggernaut***.
6: Thrower with Kick-off Return or Accurate, Goblin with Diving Tackle or Catch. Alternate: 2x BOB w/Block or SF (whichever you didn't get before game 4).

*Guard on the outside LBs (in the wide zone, protecting the corner) would be more potent, but the skill progression of this tournament doesn't encourage it at all, as you have to put skills on the corner at some point, rather than just playing up the OLBs until they get two skills, and the OLB is where the toolbox goes (well, there and inside at safety, but you also have the Throwers to think of). Were you given a smaller or larger number of skills, I might have recommended you go Guard instead of Stand Firm. Also, SF is awesome for Blitzers on offense. You could also do one of each if you're not huge on Grab or Juggy... then in that case, make your Frenzy Blitzer's second improvement Stand Firm and play those two on the same side. Also, note that if you don't think you'll see a lot of Agility you can drop Tackle-boy out for an instance of Guard.

** I like Stand Firm: put 'em on the line vs. bash and in the inside LB vs. speed to soak up the blitz... but you can't go wrong with Block, in which case you should go the other way around, on the line vs. speed and behind the line vs. bash.

*** Frenzy/Jug if tournament composition is bashier, Tackle/Grab if it's speedier.

mattgslater wrote: 1 Troll: 11
4 BOB: 32
4 Blitzer: 32
2 Thrower: 14
1 Goblin: 4
1 Line-Orc: 5
2 Re-Rolls: 12

Even with leader available in the first game I'd still rather have 12 players and 3 rerolls, with the option of a 4th.

With your lineup I would probably go
1) Thrower - Leader
2) Blitzer - Frenzy, Troll - Guard (frenzy works against everyone)
3) 2x BOB Guard
4) 2x BOB Guard, Blitzer Tackle
5) Blitzer with Frenzy or Tackle gets Mighty Blow (OR give the troll block and give a blitzer tackle or mighty blow in round 2)
6) Blitzers guard, tackle or mighty blow. If you know who you are going to play take guard anti-bash, tackle anti-flair. MB sort of works against either. Maybe block on the 2nd thrower if you know you are playing against elves with leap,block.

For me having 4 or 5 guards with S4 or S5 means most of your opposition are really going to struggle to get 2 dice blocks anywhere. That's pretty much an impenetrable barrier for many teams. Against war dancers (or equivalent) the guard ought to mean always 2 dice against.

I'd take my team, and its skills, to outperform Matt's team any day of the week!

See, to me 4 RR on a team with SH and 4x Block is overkill, while 13 players is a good solid chance to neutralize a key opponent and get a numerical edge on speed teams. The Guard BOBs are not a bad idea at all. Anything that keeps the ball on the other side of the field. I think bash teams will game your Guard, though; knock over a BOB and go to town. So you have to put the Blitzers in the key blitz-absorbing positions, limiting the value of their mobility.

Questions:

1) How do you form your line? Guard is good on the nose tackle, but Block and Stand Firm are better on the ends. However, if you have two skills, it's hard to go wrong with either plus Guard, so you can force the opponent to kd your ST4 linemen to get a net assist against the ST4 linebacker for an inside route.

2) Who goes in the wide zones? For the guy on the corner, Guard isn't great, but Stand Firm really kicks butt. For the guy inside from and in front of him (the outside LB), Guard is really good, but that guy doesn't get hit a lot, so he's also a good candidate for toolbox skills (esp. Frenzy, since he plays in the WZ). BOBs with Guard are good there, except that BOBs spread wide often get caught out of position.

3) How do you set up the inside? If you put the inside defenders parallel, you'll like Guard on the guy who's less likely to get hit. This is unfortunate if, like me, you don't put BOBs wide, as you want ST4 to soak up the hits and you'll want Blitzers throughout in the WZs (after all, you want to keep them out up the middle, but you also want them to try). If you like to tuck your safeties (Throwers, maybe?) behind your inside LBs and let the inside LB take the hit, Guard is no help to anybody there, and you'll want Block or Stand Firm on the ILB, who is best off if he's a BOB.

Remember, initial defensive setup is the most important aspect of the game. Set up an impenetrable D and everything else falls right into place. There are many ways to do that with Orcs.