Talk Fantasy Football

Hi there,

after having a very good time with my pro elves (W/T/L 17/5/10) and some unispiring games with dark elves ( having played 3 games with coming out 1/1/1 I just let them slip, wasn't having fun with them) I decided to cross the final frontier and try out wood elves...
Let me say: In our group we don't have a single WE team, so I have never seen them in action yet. I read a few tbb posts about them, but basicaly can anyone tell me the main playing differences between WE and PE (I played my PE team pretty much centered on defense, 3 SS blodgers, 2 SB wrestle, dodge catchers etc.)??

Good
1. More Speed
2. Easy to get one-turners
3. Insane Wardancers
4. A treeman

Bad
1. No NOS catchers
2. No AV8 Blitzers
3. Not as cheap
4. Expensive Throwers

The "rank"-ing of the cheese....

A Wood Elf team is built on the following truths:

770k: Base cost of players.
20k each: upgrade to Thrower or Catcher.
50k each: upgrade to WD or Tree, or buy RR.

A Catcher is a difference maker, so take one. That's 79. That gives you four of the following:
WD
WD
Tree
RR
RR
3x Thrower/Catcher

All of these options are good.

I would skip the treeman. He doesn't mesh well with the rest of the team, and he doesn't really help much after turn 1, and he's freakin' expensive on a team that's already wicked expensive.

Wardancers are awesome, and you'd be crazy not to get one. He's pretty much the single most likely way to get the ball back from the opponent. Rerolls are a necessity... I know it seems like they shouldn't be, but without sure hands and with leap being a mere 3+, plus use of go for its with the catchers, you actually kinda need them.

Here's what I'd do:

Linemen x 8
Catcher
Thrower
Wardancer
RR x2

I really want to stretch for a third reroll or apothecary, but there's just no room in the list.

This gives you 40k spare, which I would save and use to buy an apothecary after game 1. Believe me, this team needs it.

THen wardancer, catcher #2, then more rerolls.

2 Catchers, no Thrower. Any Elf can Throw.

It seems callous, but at AV7 someone is going to die. Someone. Probably in the first game. Plan on playing with Journey Line-elfs. A lot. And don't sweat it at all. You start with 8 Line-elfs, and go down from there.

If you start with a little cash in the bank, keep it there. Maybe you want to buy an Apoth after 2-3 games, but keep enough in the bank to hire that Journeyman after any game. You never know when the mook is going to draw the MVP and skill up on you. Then, and only then, is he worth hiring. Until that unlikely event happens, you're saving cash for a Wardancer or another Catcher.

When you have at least 2 of each, plus maybe a Thrower, then you want an Apothecary to keep them safe(r). Until then, cash is more useful.

I don't agree that any elf can throw. My thrower has 15 completions in 6 games. Pass has been used many times, and those 15 SPP enabled him to get sure hands and leader (with an MVP). A line elf doing the same would be down a skill. The 20k is totally worth it. And that's not to mention how many times it has saved me using a reroll, not to mention that Leader is freakin' awesome.

You'll throw every single time you receive the ball, so you might as well have someone you can trust to do it. For 20k it's at least the equivalent of a permanent reroll for me.

The Souljourner wrote:I don't agree that any elf can throw. My thrower has 15 completions in 6 games. Pass has been used many times, and those 15 SPP enabled him to get sure hands and leader (with an MVP). A line elf doing the same would be down a skill. The 20k is totally worth it. And that's not to mention how many times it has saved me using a reroll.

You'll throw every single time you receive the ball, so you might as well have someone you can trust to do it. For 20k it's at least the equivalent of a permanent reroll for me.

See, I think that's a huge mistake. 15 comps in 6 games means you're not rotating enough. I like WE Throwers because a) they're really among the best Throwers out there (not the best deal: that's either PE or Skaven), and b) they can get Leader, which really helps on a team with RR problems. But I think that you should make an effort to complete passes with blank linos or anyone else who needs 1, 4 or 6 points to advance (or 7 for WDs or Catchers, as 2TD is easy on those guys), and spread the skills around a bit more.

So for me, the Thrower is the guy who makes the pass late in the half, or maybe on offense, or when I don't really have a good alternative in SPP terms. I find I get a lot more mileage out of any elf Thrower when I'm man-down. But on D, I don't make any especial effort to stick the Thrower in a scoring-pass position. If I have a choice, he's my strong safety, able to get the ball should I free it up downfield, while I have designated point-hounds in at the OLB spots to go get the ball and QP to each other. If my skill selection lets me designate a strong side (usually because of SS and possibly a lack of Tackle on the opponent), I'll put a Catcher in at nickel on the weak side wide zone, replacing my OLB, and most of the time if I recover the ball it's Sammy who's QPing to him. Or I'll try to get the ball and chuck with a WD to whoever I want to score with.

I'm really surprised at all the 1WD rosters people have recommended. I agree that at 1M, the Tree is not a high enough priority (1.1M is different). But I'm terrified of the idea of not having two WDs to begin. They're very expensive, yes, but man they're good. It's very hard to buy a 120k player after the season starts when your linos are AV7 and 70k. 90k for a Thrower or Catcher is easier to manage.

15 Comps in 6 games means I can have a passer with sure hands and a player with Leader. I think leader alone is worth it, but sure hands on my passer is also well worth it.

In my experience my line elves get SPP when they get MVP and that's it. And yes, then I send them back to get a completion for their skill.

I would love to find the space for a second wardancer in the main lineup, but I just can't find the points for it... dropping the thrower would work, and it wouldn't be a terrible trade, I just know how much I love my thrower, and especially his leader skill.

There is actually a pretty strong argument to take a catcher in favour of a thrower:
- catchers move faster than throwers, that means that instead of having to throw a quickpass you could handoff instead, or instead of a short pass you could throw a quick pass instead.
- catchers move faster than throwers, that means you can position better after picking the ball up
- catchers move faster than throwers, that means you can move the ball around the pitch alot quicker without having to resort to a passing play
- catchers have dodge which is great for mobility and makes them a little more resilient than throwers
- catchers are better suited to defense because of their massive movement
- catchers have catch, you can use that a little like a passing RR but for passes done by your linemen
- catchers can be used to oneturn somewhat more effectively

Obviously throwers have plenty going for them including the ability to take leader very quickly and reliably but do bear in mind that a thrower isnt the best out the box thrower.

throwers have an advantage over catchers - they are STR3 compared to catchers STR2.
but yes you dont need to start a team with one.

Comparative:

Catchers
Plus:
• Has Dodge, which makes them less vulnerable if you can tie up opposing hunter-types and makes them more reliable at getting the ball after it's popped free.
• Has Catch, which makes it easy to spread comps about.
• Has +2 MA, which makes him a 2TS threat from the safety position (especially with Dodge) and acts almost like free Kick-off Return on O. Also frequently functions as ersatz Accurate. Can also be developed into a 1TS threat with Sprint and Side Step or +MA.
• Will add half a score and half a completion per game, netting 2 SPP.
Minus:
• Has ST2, and so is very vulnerable to hunters with Tackle, Frenzy and/or MB. ST3 hunters can go 2d on with no assists, or 3d with two assists. Usually you can protect against this, but it takes some gaming and you will eventually make an error.
• ST2 also means he is poorly suited to blitzing despite his mobility. This is minor on a team with the best blitzer in the game, but sometimes it is a tad annoying.

Throwers
Plus:
• Has ST3, so can be put at outside LB position without much fear. Can also be used as a blitzing safety, while a Catcher is better as an assistor.
• Has Pass, so is better at getting TDs to other guys. He's also a good candidate for Sure Hands, and acts as a reminder to get a SH guy.
• Has P access, and so can get Leader. Thrower #2 can become a pretty dangerous offensive weapon too, though that's not as good as it sounds.
Minus:
• Has the same statline as a lino, so can't do anything special.
• Despite ST3, too expensive to field at line, inside LB, corner positions.

I say that if you're going to have just one it's better to have a Catcher. It might be wise to start only 1-2 Catchers, rather than 3 or 4, and then to buy more as your 13th and 14th-15th selections.

In an individual, one off, game catchers are better IMO. However in league play (and to some extent tournaments) easy access to leader plus the potential to develop a reliable long passer make them important to the team.

Given that throwers generally skill up slower than catchers it makes it useful to start with them. Also rookie catchers skill up a lot quicker in established leagues than rookie throwers do.

How about this?

1x Catcher
2x Thrower
2x WD
6x Lino
1x TRR
2x FF

One Catcher as a safety, throwers at both OLB spots, WDs at ILB, linos on the corner, the line and the other safety. First purchase is Apoth, then a Catcher, another Catcher, and a TRR once you have 13 men. 2 FF is better on this team than just about any.

The Souljourner wrote:I don't agree that any elf can throw. My thrower has 15 completions in 6 games. Pass has been used many times, and those 15 SPP enabled him to get sure hands and leader (with an MVP). A line elf doing the same would be down a skill. The 20k is totally worth it. And that's not to mention how many times it has saved me using a reroll, not to mention that Leader is freakin' awesome.

You'll throw every single time you receive the ball, so you might as well have someone you can trust to do it. For 20k it's at least the equivalent of a permanent reroll for me.

If you really need the pass skill so much with wood elves you're not getting the maximum out of them IMO. It means you're probably throwing 3+ (or harder) passes often and are probably throwing too much. Wood elves are fast and mobile so often you don't even need to pass (handoffs are safer) or at least keep them quick.