Talk Fantasy Football

Hey Guys!

So, I wanna start with an orc team in my first league (haven't played bb that often so far, either) wich consists, besides me, of the following teams:

3 Orcs
2 Lizardmen
2 Skaven
1 Woodelves
1 Dwarfs
1 Norse
1 Undead

Most of the other coaches are also beginners and the league is mainly bashy, as you can see.

I can't decide on how to build the right team for the league. TR is 1Mil. I want to keep the team all orcs, so no goblins and no troll!

I have three build-options, so far.

1. (golden middle)
3 BoB
3 Blitzer
1 Thrower
4 Lineman
4 RR
0 FF
= 990k, 10k banked

2. (bashy way)
3 BoB or 4 BoB when 3 Blitzer
4 Blitzer or 3 Blitzer when 4 BoB
5 Lineman
4 RR
0 FF
= 1 Mil.

3. (passing game way)
3 BoB
3 Blitzer
4 Lineman
2 Thrower
3 RR
0 FF
= 980k, 20k banked

Points I am considering all the time and want advice from advanced players on:

1. I want as much rerolls as soon as possible in the beginning, since they cost double later on, I think four should be enough, or would you guys go down to three and buy something else for the money?

2. I want as many bob's as soon as possible since they need time to develop (at least thats what I read here), but I also want enough blitzers
, as they already have block and are much faster. I also like build three with two throwers as this gives me the ability to have a little passing game, maybe this is what could give me the edge over the other bashy teams in the league? The two throwers make me sacrifice a RR and a blitzer or bob, is it worth it?

So, to cut it short, what is the right ratio of bob's, blitzers, throwers and rr's you would suggest, with regards to the other teams in the league?

I think you need all 4 Blitzers and at least 3 BOBs right out the gate. If you have a Thrower, 3 TRRs is plenty.

I usually go:
4 BOBs
4 Blitzers
1 Thrower
1 Lineman
1 Troll
2 RR
1 FF

I would personally advise a newbie to go:
4 BOBs
4 Blitzers
1 Thrower
2 Linemen
3 RR
1 FF

mattgslater wrote:I think you need all 4 Blitzers and at least 3 BOBs right out the gate. If you have a Thrower, 3 TRRs is plenty.

I would personally advise a newbie to go:
4 BOBs
4 Blitzers
1 Thrower
2 Linemen
3 RR
1 FF

When 3 TRR is plenty with one thrower how about this with 2 TRR?

4 BOBs
4 Blitzers
2 Throwers
1 Lineman
2 RR
50k left

I would suggest the 3 re-roll option like suggested in the quote of your post instead of your 2 thrower 2 re-roll roster.

For a few reasons.

It will be cheaper to get the thrower later instead of the 3rd re-roll.

And you want your BOBs to skill up quickly, which means blocking with them. The extra re-roll will allow you to re-roll blocks which will prevent turn overs and generate cas spp (hopefully).

lastly, you'll only use sure hands one player to pick up the ball per drive, so paying to upgrade a lineorc to a thrower is essentially just getting sure hands and pass and the passing chart. Non of which you'll need without the 3rd re-roll to use for catching the ball with an agility 3 player.(assuming you use the pass skill or passing skills you are paying for.)

Does that make sense?

Actually, I think the 2RR/ 2 Thrower plan has some merit, even though only the first Thrower is equivalent to a TRR. 2RR is enough... barely... and you know you have a player to put Leader on. But instead of 50k banked, I'd take either a reserve Lino or an Apoth. Probably an Apoth is a safer option in a League. Or just take my first list with the Troll. He's kind of annoying sometimes, and you might lose a game early in your career to Really Stupid. But 5 +ST guys (4 BOBs and a Troll) and four AV9/Block players in the WZ, and your defense is insane.

One thing about not having enough TRRs is that it teaches you good management.

I think I will go with mattgslater's newbie team.

I see that a troll together with the bob's and blitzters can be really sick but having three rerolls may be better for a me. Later on, when the other players are a bit developed, a troll will surely be a good addition as by then it won't be so crucial when he acts really stupid. Can't decide if I am ready to already go this ballsy way in the beginning or take the save route

The idea of the second thrower is that when I have two my opponent doesn't try to focus and punish them (as he surely would when I only have one). Also, it would be easier to cover my backfield and get the ball with two guys quite competent at it. Lastly, they could be my "secret-tech" against the other bashy teams in the league and actually land some touchdowns. Does anyone have any experience with this plan or is it not worth it and should I stick to a standard build?

Go with his newbie team with 3 rerolls, but don't buy the fanfactor. Bank it or buy a coach/cheerleader. Either one.

The Troll is nice, but I don't think you should start with him and he's definately not a noob tool.

Thing is, you don't really expect him to do anything. You're often better off not doing anything at all. Just let him stand there, because if you don't activate him to do something you don't have to roll for him. Eventually you'll pick up an MVP on the Troll, at which point you're looking for him to do ANYTHING for you to get another SPP. A Troll with Guard is pretty dang sweet: he still just stands there, but now everyone around him gets +ST from a freebie assist (unless you fail a RS roll on him!).

The other way through this is to drop a BOB for a 2nd Thrower. As you've already correctly noted, it really does take 2 Orc Throwers to fully cover your entire backfield. One alone does a good job and is fine for a starting team against other rookie starting teams, because it is unlikely that the ball will wind up exactly on the sidelines or otherwise exactly out of reach of your Thrower. Typically, you can at least GFI and get the ball. What I see done with 2 Throwers is one gets it, and then tosses it (QP/SP) to the other who then runs it into the cage. Fine. But you don't need a 2nd Thrower to do this. All you need is anyone you can risk throwing the ball to. Your Blitzers should skill up quickly, and first Doubles roll ought to be Catch.

One thing I don't see much of on Orc teams is Goblins. Personally, I think they're unfairly overlooked. Okay, 10K more gets a better hitter. But compared to Blitzers they're equal runners and they're a 2-for-1 deal.

Consider this:
4 BOBs
4 Blitzers
2 Throwers
1 Goblin
3 Rerolls

I just took matt's "newbie" team and replaced a Lineman with a Goblin. That saved 10K. Plus 10K blown on Fan Factor. Bank it? Nah, upgrade the other Lineman to a Thrower. Why? A Thrower is a Lineman with extra skills and better skill access. The 2nd Thrower is optional. That could be a Lineman or a 2nd Goblin and some money in the bank.

Goblin with Catch is great. Stunty allows him to ignore tackle zones when dodging. Goblin with Diving Tackle (and esp also Tackle) is an incredible annoyance against Agility teams (the bane of Orcs). Send the Goblin to mark an enemy catcher, and the other team will have to waste its blitz action to save their catcher. Goblin with Nerves of Steel is an incredible utility player. Plus they're throwable, if you ever get a Troll. Get a bunch of Inducements? Grab a Merc Troll for the game and let your Goblin fly.

That sounds like a plan, this way I get everything I wanted. One lineman substituted to a goblin, which has other qualities seems like the way to go and still have 3 RR's. When the troll's main task is to cause fear and just stand there I gladly buy one later on or get him from inducements.

2 things about Goblins:

1) They're the diametric opposite of the rest of your team. That means you can use them in ways you can't use other guys and you can't use them in ways you can use other guys. This sometimes means they get killed if you're not good at protecting them.

2) You don't have long to wait before getting the Goblin should you not start with him, as they're cheap.

Banked winnings over FF might be a little better if you don't start a Troll. The only reason I don't normally do it is that since I start with a Troll, I only have 200k to go for my final team (an Apoth, a Thrower and two Gobs) and the 10k advance is overkill. If you have to buy a Troll out of winnings, I could see how that changes the equation. Remember, you don't have the same player management issues most teams have, as if you coach well your boys won't get hurt a lot.

The there is a lot to love about the Goblin on the Orc team, in my opinion.

1. He's the only guy on the entire team with direct access to Agility skills. So what? Thats Catch and Side Step. Get +AG? Thats Leap.
2. He's cheap. Which makes him easily replacable. Imminently replacable. 40K? Pocket change. You'll make that in one game on winnings. Cheap and easily replaced means expendible.
3. He's MA6, same as a Blitzer. You're always looking for someone to come assist on a block. A BOB? Too slow, never make it. Another Blitzer? Using a Blitzer to assist on a block wastes his talents (namely Block skill). Assisting only requires a warm body. Marking a player only requires a warm body. A Goblin can be that warm body.

You go with 4-4-2 and a Gobbo, and I actually recommend buying more Gobbos. Maybe, perhaps, up to the max of 4 of them. The downside of Gobbos is the AV7. Dodge help. A lot. Just ask any Amazon player how much Dodge helps. But Stunty really sucks when you're getting pounderized. So thats the downside. That and the fact that they suck as throwers. Odds are you'll never get more than 2 skills on a Gobbo before he gets eaten (killed or fired for being a cripple). But they're cheap so you can cycle through them quickly without feeling bad when they bite it.

I'm about to the point where I want an Orc team again, and I think I'll build one out of Fantasy and/or 40K plastics. That will give me plenty of variety and some cool posability, plus lots of leftovers to make a whole team of Gobbos and some Gobbo mutants to turn my Skaven into an Underworld team. Whats in my bitz box? The Orc/Ork components of Fantasy and 40K boxed sets, and 15 years worth of accumulated bitz-on-sprue. Yeah, this sounds like fun.

Excellent analysis. One point to pick..

AK_Dave wrote:1. He's the only guy on the entire team with direct access to Agility skills. So what? Thats Catch and Side Step. Get +AG? Thats Leap.

AG4 Stunties shouldn't bother with Leap. They're already 2+ dodges everywhere, they're excellent catchers and ball retrieves, and they're 80k before skills.. and worth every gp. Leap is good but it's dangerous. Better off piling safety skills on an AG4 goblin: Side Step, Sure Feet, Jump Up, Block if possible.

Leap can be risky. True. And MA6 doesn't give a lot of room to take advantage of it. But it is loads of annoying when you need to get inside of a cage that is loaded with Stand Firm.

On an Orc team, I'd keep it to 2 Goblins. You need to win the bash war, and while your Gob can screw with opponents' assist-game, he does give you a noticeable weak point. Generally only one Gob is good on defense; they make good safeties, but so do Throwers, and you want one ST3 safety no matter what. They make good receivers on offense, but relying too much on dedicated receivers on a team with dedicated throwers is bad for player progression.

I used to go for Catch and Sure Feet, with Nerves of Steel on doubles, but I think I'm going to start developing Gobs as safeties rather than receivers, with DT and SS, with Wrestle or Guard on doubles, as Gobs don't really need any offensive skills to be effective.

mattgslater wrote: The only reason I don't normally do it is that since I start with a Troll, I only have 200k to go for my final team (an Apoth, a Thrower and two Gobs)

Well, I would also only have to spend 200/250k (Troll, Apoth, Gobbo and optional 1 Lineman, what do I need him for anyways, later on) but also have an additional reroll.

Thanks for all the input, it really helped me out.

AK_Dave wrote: I'm about to the point where I want an Orc team again, and I think I'll build one out of Fantasy and/or 40K plastics.

If this thread pushed you towards that, then it was already worth it

Well, I had an Orc team. Once. 2ed metal. I have a plastic Orc team now, but I'm not inspired to want to paint it because I don't like the uni-pose plastic BB models. But what I am inspired to do is cut them apart and use them for conversion bitz to make an Orc team out of 40K/Fantasy plastics. Which is exactly how my boxed set Human plastics became donor parts to turn Catachan Jungle Fighters into a Norse team. Its only fair that I do the same to the Orc parts.