Dwarf Improvement - Unusual Problem

MeatLoafX · Post by **MeatLoafX** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:27 pm

Greetings all!

First, I want to say that as a new player (and new TBB member), I've been enjoying reading through the posts and I've been learning a lot. THANK YOU!

My friends got me into Blood Bowl using dwarves (I am a fan of dwarf miniatures, generally). So, that's been my first team. I'm in a store league that uses the following house rules, among others:
1. No Star Players
2. When you skill up, you can take any skill a maximum of 4 times on your entire roster.

Now, with dwarves, that means I can only ever take guard four times, for example.

My unusual problem is this - my first skill ups have almost all been doubles rolls or stat increases. A great problem to have, sure, but it means I'm already lacking in the "normal" dwarf skills.

My roster looks like this after 3 games:
5FF, 4 RRs, 50K in the bank
1 Runner with +AG (15 SPPs)
2 Trollslayers - One with no skills, One with +ST and Jump Up
2 Blitzers - One is +Dodge, the other is +Guard
6 Linemen - No skills

I'd like to max out my guard and mighty blow... but the +ST Trollslayer will probably take Pile On as the next skill, if he lives that long.

Who should be trying to get the last 3 guard spots?
Who should I target for Mighty Blow, other than the unskilled Trollslayer?
I'm probably aiming for block with the runner next. Anything else I should consider?

Is my roster just a mess or does it open up any unusual dwarf builds (if there is such a thing!)?

Any help would be appreciated. Our league has few high-AG teams. Out of the 20 teams, we have lots of bashy teams (dwarf, orc, chaos) with a sprinkling of other ones.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:31 pm

Guard should go on Blockers that man the LOS. Effective S5 on the nose and S4 on the wings? Lovely job.

Mighty Blow is definately a Slayer still. And Give the S4 Slayer Mighty Blow as well, don't bother with Pile On yet, makes him a prime fouling target.

Give Mighty Blow and Tackle to the Blitzers, use them as safeties to smash enemy runners on defense, and as linebreakers on the offense.

Develop one Runner as a Scorer (the +AG one) and get him Block and Fend (Dodge on doubles). Develop the other as a passer (short play) with Sure Hands and Kick-Off Return (Pass on doubles).

Everyone else should try to get Stand Firm for wing defense and cage formation.

~Andromidius

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:40 pm

Runners have passing as a skill, so they don't need doubles to take Pass

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:17 pm

I agree with mighty blow before piling on on the slayer. And maby also stand firm before piling on. He will own the widezone...

Also agree with guard as a LB skill.

On offence you should generally carry the ball on the AG 4 guy until you get at least one passing skill on the other guy, accurate or pass in the order you like and maby you even want block first or in betvine. Then the passing plan might be a good idea. The AG 4 guy should get block next.

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:37 pm

Andromidius wrote: Develop the other as a passer (short play) with Sure Hands and Kick-Off Return (Pass on doubles).

With strong arm you can pull of some longer passes too. Just remember that sooner or later even dwarves will die.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:31 pm

Get Guard on the first three Blockers. Then try to get two with Stand Firm. Stand Firm in conjunction with ST or Guard is a fair substitute for more Guard. I'd take MB, then SF on the Slayer, both before Piling On. If I didn't take SF it'd be because I had 4 some other way, and then I'd go for Juggernaut (you'll see SF and Wrestle late in this season even from people who don't believe in them, because they'll max out on Block and Guard).

MeatLoafX · Post by **MeatLoafX** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:45 pm

Many excellent thoughts - thank you!

Was taking Jump Up a mistake on the Slayer? I took it over an AV+ or any other skill, but I wasn't sure.

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:18 pm

Slayers are mojer targets, so AV would proberbly be better. Also its a 3+ roll to block. A blitzer with jump up can block on 2+ with jump up, which obviusly is much better because you will lose actions 1/3 of the time when trying to block, and the blitzer could also use the mobility better with AG 3. So maby it was a mistake. I think AV for the slayer and jump up for the blitzer.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:31 pm

Once the Slayer gets Stand Firm, Jump Up will make opponents queasy.

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:36 pm

true, If he gets stand firm...

Maby he should get stand firm before mighty blow then?

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:38 am

Tripleskull wrote:Slayers are mojer targets, so AV would proberbly be better. Also its a 3+ roll to block. A blitzer with jump up can block on 2+ with jump up, which obviusly is much better because you will lose actions 1/3 of the time when trying to block, and the blitzer could also use the mobility better with AG 3. So maby it was a mistake. I think AV for the slayer and jump up for the blitzer.

Jump up is a good choice on the slayer. Remember, you don't have to roll for jump up if you are blitzing or just moving the player..so don't worry so much about the 3+ to jump up and block someone. Heck, I have jump up on a slayer with agility 1 and have not regretted the choice yet.

I personally like pass before accurate, but the numbers are almost identical (pass is a faction better as you don't always have a Team RR avaiable to pass with).

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:02 am

Good point about Runners actually being throwers skillwise. But I'd probably still get Sure Hands first, just for the pickup (since you can always just handoff to the AG4 Runner if you don't want to take the risk).

~Andromidius

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:27 am

I can't say I like that houserule - and it smells of a left over from 3rd ed when skills were far less balanced than they are now. Really I don't think its necessary and really hurts some teams much more than others (Chaos for instance can only get 4 block & 4 wrestle players...)

I'd probably take sidestep or dodge on the double with a troll slayer. SS is better than SF on frenzy players because of the increased risk of surfing. Dodge obviously helps him stay on his feet.

Grab is a good skill for you to take when Guard, Mighty Blow & Stand Firm are exhausted.

Don't forget Diving Tackle on doubles for the blockers too.

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:04 am

Andromidius wrote:Good point about Runners actually being throwers skillwise. But I'd probably still get Sure Hands first, just for the pickup (since you can always just handoff to the AG4 Runner if you don't want to take the risk).

~Andromidius

Runners have sure hands

accurate vs pass: Well if you dont have a team rr pass is better, but when you do its the other way around. Dwarfs can be played safe when you plan on passing and have cheap rrs, so I prefere accurate.

Point taken about jump up and blitz. It is an awsome skill.

MeatLoafX · Post by **MeatLoafX** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:51 pm

ianwilliams wrote:I can't say I like that houserule - and it smells of a left over from 3rd ed when skills were far less balanced than they are now. Really I don't think its necessary and really hurts some teams much more than others (Chaos for instance can only get 4 block & 4 wrestle players...)

As a new player, I can't speak as to the reasons behind the rule, but as a positive, it does lead to some varied (non-standard) team builds. No more just maxing out block, for example. (and it hasn't stopped chaos in our league - there are several teams and they are quite competitive).

Since I already took Jump Up, that skill is probably decided (likely can't go back, even though the game was just 2 days ago). But it's good to know some opinions in case it happens again.

As for the Jump Up one, should I do MB, then either SF or Pile On? He's racking up the SPPs already, so I hope I can get at least one more skill on him before he dies a bloody, horrible death.