Vampires development - new Blood Lust rules

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TeflonDon
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Vampires development - new Blood Lust rules

Post by TeflonDon »

I've played two games with my Vampire team - one using the LRB 5 rules, one using the new rules (can't really figure out what to call those :-?). That's obviously not enough to base anything on statistically, but I still have the feeling that the change in the rule means that the team build could be changed somewhat.

I started out ignoring the advice in the sticky here, and bought three vampires, eight thralls and five rerolls. The teams that I play aren't that bashy, so I figured I could keep enough thralls on the pitch even with three vamps around, and so far I've been right. With the change to the blood lust rule I have the feel that even more vampires can be fielded, since they are less likely to cost rerolls - of course they will wear down the thralls, but that is really just an issue if you face teams that prefer long drives, and against these it would be sound vampire strategy to go agressively for the ball, which would either cause turnovers (meaning fewer BL-rolls), or get you the ball (shortening the drive). So I'm actually thinking that fielding as many as five vamps any given time would be ideal?

So the question becomes how to build them? Originally my plan was to go blodge and then see what felt right, but with more vampires building more specialized players seem smarter. Så far I've only had two increases (guard on a lucky thrall, block on a vampire), but I'd like some input. The vamps have great skill access, which is just brilliant. These are my thoughts, I'd like some comments.

I want two vampires to roam the widezones, and being inspired by my darkelves I'd like blode and side step on them - I'll go block first and then probably SS, as their ST4 will likely protect them somewhat. On the other hand dodge is very versatile early in thir development, as mobility is a huge asset for the vamps.

I'll also want two more destructive types - Block, MB, Tackle, Frenzy sounds great, but it is a long way. Again starting with Block seems obvious, as it is so useful on both attack and defence.

I'm thinking that the first one to roll a double should be built as a thrower/ball carrier. Giving him pass and then strong arm and sure hands will make him a decent thrower who can hold on to the ball even though block or dodge only cones as fourth skills.

But that was five players already, and I haven't any leap, strip ball or guard, which suggests to me that something is wrong. Am I mistaken in building "two of a kind", and should I mold each vampire into a specific role? Should I abandon dodge compeltely in order to get to the other skills faster? Is going for sidesteppers thinking too defensively? Should I take a lot more guard, as it can be used passively?

Any input is welcome:-)

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Lictor
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Post by Lictor »

A guy in my league (we are using original LRB 5.0) has only 3 Vampires and will only ever have two on the pitch at any one time. And he is winning... His Vamps are taking on Ogres in our Veteran League Grand Final (Will be an awesome game to watch lol). Mind you I think he ranked as the highest or secong highest place aussie in World Cup.

He does not plan on changing his tactics for the new rules, and he skills them all up Block, Dodge, Pro. I'm not sure what he does from there. With St 4 Blocking and Ag 4 Dodging means it is easily offensive or defensive and the Pro gives leeway, especially for BL. His rule of thumb is also 3 RR's for every Vamp on the pitch.

As his 1.51 Vamps beat my 2.26 W'Elves (Count Luthor is a sl*t I HATE HIM I HATE HIM I HATE HIM) I am inclined to think he knows what he is doing, but having a Blodge, Pro St5 Vamp who doesn't have to roll for Blood Lust made a huge impact (as did the Frenzy St 4 fan that joined the game due to Play cards.)

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Post by someone2040 »

I started a 3 Vamp 8 Thrall team in MBBL. I got off to a pretty good start, which I think helped me out. Unfortunately the game after I finally broke 11 players without Journeymen, my Thralls ran into injury troubles and back to Journeymen I am.

I personally enjoy the 3 Vampire game. It's nice to have 2 strength 4 ag 4 receivers running down seperate flanks, while your Vampire with the ball holds onto it and has 2 potential receivers (Ignoring any Thralls up there).

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tenwit
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Post by tenwit »

Lictor wrote:but having a Blodge, Pro St5 Vamp who doesn't have to roll for Blood Lust made a huge impact
Whassat? Luthor is ST5 no Blood Lust, but no Pro or Dodge. And any vamp on his team has Blood Lust. So how'd he get that vamp?

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Post by stashman »

I play LRB5 vampires.

Batshof Red Sucks (11 (4/2/5) games, 175 TV, 5 RR, 6 FF & Apo)
5 vampires and 10 thralls :lol:

(why play vampire if you ain't gonna use vampires?)

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Post by mattgslater »

I've had a little success running all-Hobgoblin teams... better to do it with Humans, though. Cheaper RRs, less turnover.

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Post by SillySod »

I dont think that the rules review changed alot of vampire strategy, it just made them a little more effective at what they do (and a tiny weeny isty bit more durable). Three vampires should be ok if you know what you are doing with them, two is a little better when starting up but three can be pretty good... especially when the early wins count for alot.

I would personally go for blodge as the first two skills on every vampire, they save you loads of RRs and turn your vampires into monsters. After that I'd have at least one tackler but their development is pretty open. I like the following archetypes but they are pretty fluid:
Blitzer - (blodge) tackle, mighty blow, sidestep... the best path for a +MA vampire to take
Frenzy - (blodge) frenzy, sidestep... nice to have but for crowdsurfs, not for generating casualties
Passive - (blodge) sidestep, guard, diving tackle... neat for +St vampires
Hypnogazers - (blodge) pro... nice for +AG vampires

When you develope remember that you are usually going to have to score within 4-5 turns and plan accordingly, defence is your key. Also bear in mind how much more powerful three vampires are than two. Early on the lack of RR can make three a challenge but when you are facing a developed opponent you are in deep trouble if you cant field three vampires.

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Post by grampyseer »

I agree with Sillysod.

Blodge first, then get fancy.

There's nothing worse than declaring a vamp blitz on a ball carrier. (after opening the cage with hypnotic gaze)
failing your blood lust
Re rolling your blood lust
than rolling both downX2 when you make the blitz.


You'll save yourself a ton of rerolls if you go blodge first. Then you can start adding frenzied, MB, PO monsters....

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TeflonDon
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Post by TeflonDon »

I get the blodge first part - and it does save a lot of rerolls.

But I am a bit surprised that people do not find the new blood lust rules to have a bigger influence. As I wrote I've only played one game before the change and one after, but the difference was huge.

Under the new rules I saved a lot of rerolls, as I would sometimes just accept failing the BL roll, and then go for a (preferably stunned) Thrall, if my focus was on movement. Og course you need to have thralls in the area you wish to move to, but that isn't impossible if for instance the vamp is on his way to hypnotice a corner of a cage.

Now I'm thinking that having more vamps (four or five) on the field would of course limit the number of thralls, but if the opponent tries to go for them then a quick score should be possible - and if the opponent focuses on containing the vampires, then having fewer thralls won't be so much of an issue?

Anyway I haven't been lucky with my winnings, so the fourth vampire is a while in the future, but I think I'll give it a try, and if it dosen't fail miserably I'll probably go for the fifth as well. And I'll be sure to let you know how it turns out:-)

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Post by Lictor »

tenwit wrote:
Lictor wrote:but having a Blodge, Pro St5 Vamp who doesn't have to roll for Blood Lust made a huge impact
Whassat? Luthor is ST5 no Blood Lust, but no Pro or Dodge. And any vamp on his team has Blood Lust. So how'd he get that vamp?
You are right about the Pro, but Luthor is a Blodger, I may have confused him with another one of his Vamps who did have Blodge Pro but he got Luthor in Inducements against me.

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Post by SillySod »

TeflonDon... you could already use hypnogaze on a failed bloodlust roll because it was still a move action. I see the main benefit being saved RRs on blitzes.

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Post by tenwit »

Lictor wrote:You are right about the Pro, but Luthor is a Blodger, I may have confused him with another one of his Vamps who did have Blodge Pro but he got Luthor in Inducements against me.
Different edition of the rules? LRB5 2008:
Count Luthor Von Drakenborg, Loner, Block, Hypnotic Gaze, Regeneration, Side Step 390,000 6 5 4 9

He lost Dodge in 2008, changed to Side Step.

..oh, reread your post, you did specify original LRB5. My bad.

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TeflonDon
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Post by TeflonDon »

TeflonDon... you could already use hypnogaze on a failed bloodlust roll because it was still a move action. I see the main benefit being saved RRs on blitzes.
You're absolutely right of course. I'm not even sure if I did it wrong before, and part of my problem is that I have only played so few matches with he vampires.

And I agree about the blitzes, though the thing that struck me most was probably the very reduced risk of not being able to get rid of the ball. In the first game I played I ended up in way too long drives, because I failed Blood Lust rolls on the vampire holding the ball, and then didn't want to risk passing/handoffing after having used the reroll - that stalled my movement a couple of times.

In my second game i could try moving a thrall (sometimes dodging them out) that wasn't part of the cage into a position where he could be eaten at the end of the pass/handoff action if the Blood Lust roll failed - that saved me rerolls to be used for moving the ball. Off course that move depended on the cage being relatively safe, and so the main difference may be that my second opponent wasn't as good as the first one at putting pressure on the cage:-)

I think the main issue here is that I need to play a lot more games with my vamps before trying to be too clever. I'll go for blodge to start, but I still think I'll risk it and give one pass if he ever rolls a double.

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