Dark Elves in league (ex. DE Witches tactic)

Falkom · Post by **Falkom** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:08 am

As a new DE coach I will appreciate advices regarding team development and tactics (League, 15+ games)

Team is:
Blitzer Block 5 spp
Blitzer Block, Dodge 13 spp
Blitzer Block, +MA 10 spp
Blitzer Block 4 spp
Runner Dump-off, Sure hands 7 spp
Lineman Block 6 spp
Lineman Block 9 spp
Lineman Block 13 spp
Lineman +AG 7 spp
Lineman Block, Kick 16 spp
240k
2 RR
appo, AC

Questions
1. I intend to purchase 2 Witches for next game - Is it wise or should I take RR and 1 Witch? Or maybe lino and 1 Witch?

2. I have not played DE before so I need some input on best tactics and position in Defense/Offence for Witches. For example - should they be on same side of field for chain pushes?

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:34 am

Witch Elves are one of the best blitzers in the game (blitzer as in " a player designed to sack the opposing ball carrier").

They can be given skills such as Wrestle (highly recommended), Tackle, Leap, Pro for offense, plus Sidestep, Fend for defense.

I suggest they are best deployed one each side in defense, not exposed to immediate attack (they are AV7). In this way they threaten to push opposing players off the pitch on both wings, limiting your opponent's positional play and giving him something to think about at all times.

Hope this helps.

TeflonDon · Post by **TeflonDon** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:20 am

Witches are excellent once they get block (or wrestle if you are so inclined), but until they get that they are more likely to be used as very expensive catchers.

With block they are worth their 130K TV, without it they are not even close to being worth the 110K. So only buy two if you can handle it, and be prepared to focus on scoring with them until they gain block (buy using them as catchers, probably, they are quite difficult to contain.

On defence I place my witches in the widezones, protected by af SS blitzer - that setup pretty much forces my opponent to try to break through the middle.

mamapepe · Post by **mamapepe** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:41 pm

They are excellent defenders as they are the DE's best ways to break a cage. Some people give them block and use them as a ball carrier - I disagree with this because if the opponent tags your ball carrier, with a player with block it is often useful to blitz away rather than make a dodge, the frenzy for this can land the ball carrier in a world of trouble!

With Wrestle and then strip ball, if all else fails, the witch can dodge into a cage on a +5 with a dodge RR which is effecitvely a 5/9 (which is actually better than 50%(!)), then a 2+ (Skull being a 1) to get the ball off the opposition - even a blodger.

Also, people often forget how good jump up is. If you play someone who sticks their cage next to a prone Witch (which I hear you laughing - but it does happen more often than not) a simple 2+ means even a player with block on the corner of the cage has a 50% chance of going down against a Witch with Wrestle - 33% of being pushed, creating a gap for the blizters (or other witch) to hit the ball carrier.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:54 pm

Witch Elves shouldnt be turned into cage breakers... they are useful for hassling a cage but their defining feature is frenzy which is terrible for that sort of situation.

Try to use them to create crowdsurfs or use their frenzy to get two chances at a pow when blitzing. Since they start with Ma 7 and dodge is should be pretty easy to get a couple of TDs on them to skill up.

grampyseer · Post by **grampyseer** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:01 pm

I agree with sod.

crowd push, and sack receivers in the open. No cages.

I'm surprised that there's ANY camp that recommends wrestle witches.

130k, blodger lying on the ground, perhaps in the middle of a cage that she tried to crack........who's up for some stompin'?

I wouldn't be afraid to take 2 of them at once, but watch out. Any Savy coach will be aiming his Block,Tackle, MB blitzer right at them.

Keep the ladies protected!!!

MadBanker · Post by **MadBanker** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:34 pm

There is an excellent thread about Dark elves tactics and team development HERE

A must read.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:04 pm

SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, ... errrr...

CHEESE, CHEESE, CHEESE, CHEESE, CHEESE, CHEESE, CHEESE, CHEESE, CHEESE, CHEESE, ad infinitum....

(used indigo, since it's "dark" cheese!)

NOOOO Falcom! Stay away from the bark side... (no, that's wood elves)....

Ubiquitous Ag4 will make you an arrogant and lazy excuse of a coach... pick something respectable and worthy of the gridiron!

Falkom · Post by **Falkom** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:42 am

Tnx for answers. Still can anybody advise about options of taking 2 Witches, 1 Witch and 1 lineman or 1 Witch and RR (keeping in mind actual structure of team)?

I have read a Dark Elves topic but what I am interested in is tactic of positioning and using of Whitches...

For example

I wouldn't be afraid to take 2 of them at once, but watch out. Any Savy coach will be aiming his Block,Tackle, MB blitzer right at them.

So true... but what is best way to response? Should I keep Witch in widezone, 2 spaces from line so that any player blitzing them can be punished for it. If he try to blitz, most of the time he will stay 3 spaces from sideline so with blitz and jump-up/frenzy block it will be easy to push him in crowd...

What about placement in defense? If playing against fast teams should I put them in widezones to counter any runners/catchers... Against bashy teams I would probably keep them either in widezones but behind some "meatshield" or maybe it is better to keep them in central zone so that they can be send to "hot spot" together?

Skarsnikk · Post by **Skarsnikk** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:47 am

My friend uses his witches as a second line of defence. Putting them centrally for the kick off and out of harms way, they have the movement to then pounce on ay players making a break for it down the flanks for a nice crowd surf.

mamapepe · Post by **mamapepe** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:58 am

Falkom wrote:Tnx for answers. Still can anybody advise about options of taking 2 Witches, 1 Witch and 1 lineman or 1 Witch and RR (keeping in mind actual structure of team)?

That depends on what team you're playing next/ in the league

Falkom · Post by **Falkom** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:33 am

That depends on what team you're playing next/ in the league

It is 32 teams league with 2 divisions. Half of teams are new teams and half are 1 or 2 seasons old. Schedule is that in first part of season new teams play vs new teams (old vs old). I played 5 games (4-0-1) and my next opponents are Khemri (new), Undead (new) and then old teams Orcs, Humans, Norse, DElves, DElves, Nurgle, Humans, Nurgle. After that 4 teams from each division play final rounds.

Any advice about purchase of players will be most appriciated

Nichren · Post by **Nichren** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:46 am

I wouldn't get both WE at once. The lack of block/wrestle on them will lead to lots of turn overs. I'd go for one WE and the third RR.

JaM · Post by **JaM** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:07 am

I 2nd that. Get that RR, and a Witch. Be ready to protect her though, she's fragile.
An extra RR and an extra positional will make your team more interesting to play. 2 WE is overkill (in a bad way, i.e. hard to protect both until they skill up), a WE and a lino... I'd rather wait for a journeyman then.

Go RR and WE !

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:39 pm

Witch and RR, or Witch and save for another one when you get the skills to field two Witches (a Witch with Block, a Blitzer with SS and any non-Witch with Guard).

Witches need Block badly. If you take Wrestle, you will frequently find yourself taking "push" results over "both down" results. Overall, Block is better IMO, but there are times Wrestle on a Witch would be nice. Side Step is a great follow-up: not only does it protect you from getting surfed after surfing an opponent, but it also is a great companion to DT or Tackle, both of which make awesome #3 skills in a speedy league. In a bashy league, save SS for the Blitzers and Linos and take Leap as your #2 instead once you have a Guarder, the mere presence of Frenzy/Leap will give you the wide zones uncontested on offense against many teams.

Witches should be safeties on your team as you have it, protected from blitzes by Blitzer and Lino linebackers, but once you start getting some SS Blitzers to defend the widezones, you can shift the Witch to a nickel-back role, sitting one square inside and back of the Blitzer on the corner. Either way, you need to protect them, especially right now, when, as TeflonDon said, they essentially function like overpriced, slow-moving catchers.