Best Mutation Team

Headstrong · Post by **Headstrong** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:15 am

Im currently playing Norse this season which really suits my play style, bashy and a ball running team, but they can also play a passing game along with some dodging.

Anyways next season im thinking of playing a team that has access to mutation, just because i think they will be fun to convert and also adds another bit of flavor (aswell as picking mutations to help my postionals do their jobs) so anyways, the question is. Which team does it best?

my thoughts:
Chaos, im not a big fan of the chaos lineup, zero skills to start with, however every player can get mutations, so once they get started i can customize my players into their roles.

Nurgle, similar to chaos, but they have more starting skills on each player, aswell as the beast of nurgle.

Chaos Dwarfs, really bashy and tough, but they can only gain mutations on doubles, but once they do... Block, Tackle, thick skull, claws, mightyblow (in only two rolls) sounds pretty good. However whats the deal with centaurs? they are a walking mutation as it is, but they cant even get them on doubles? wierd.

Skaven, good postionals, but only mutations on doubles again, but pretty fast and a good running team.

MBBL teams (underworld and chaos pact) had no experiance with these teams, but they might be what im looking for, not sure though, how id build these teams.

Any teams ive missed? so which would make the best running team? and how would you build it?

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:41 am

Bull centaurs are already perfect mutations, thus their mutating deity-dude doesn't warp them further. Hence no M access.

Best running team from that list would have to be Skaven, but underworld and pact are good too. The pact lineup suffers from the same no-starting-skills problem (and same M access advantage) as Chaos. Underworld might suit you, with lots of starting Dodge, but they are the physically weakest of all those teams. Even Skaven outlast them in the long term.

It seems you're more interested in a good game with a touch of mutation, so go for Skaven. But maybe I'm misreading that and the bashy mutation with a touch of running is what you're looking for, so go for Pact.

Headstrong · Post by **Headstrong** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:59 am

I really do enjoy a good block fest, however after playing norse ive learnt not to always stand toe to toe and make sure your the one doing the bashing. The running game is definitally my play style, normally taking the 2-1 wins with a drawn out 8turn touch down, so im sure if skaven will be right for me, maybe they are too fast? if there is such a thing. The reason im watching to get a mutation access team is so i can customize my players better to fill their roles....

Want a ball extracting... get the guy with Leap, Long Legs, Strip Ball and Horns (i know thats 3 or 4 skill ups, but our leagues are pretty long) to do it, then send in a player with big hand and twoheads to pick up the loose ball etc, seems like mutations add another layer for your postionals.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:10 am

Chaos, Nurgle, Underworld & Pact all have regular mutation access - so if you want mutations you should take them rather than CDs or Skavs who only have access on doubles.

zephard · Post by **zephard** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:25 pm

I agree, if you are wanting to get mutations when you want them, then take one of the 4 that has full access to them, not ones you are waiting for doubles on.

Choas Pact sounds like it would actually be the best for you. I think it has the highest ideals for you. Totally customizable.

The Dark Elf Renegade can easily become the ball extracter you described, without a doubles at all.

Its your best bet of doing the total customizable, get a little of everything.
Does the long 8turn drive well but can speed up if needed.

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:45 pm

Take the Underworld team for mutations. In my opinion they really gain from the use of mutations.

A Chaos team is better off taking Block, Guard and Mighty Blow on pretty much everyone before bothering with mutations with maybe the exception of one beastman with Extra Arms. The same goes for Nurgle and to some extent Chaos Pact as well.

If you take Underworld, the use of mutations isn't suboptimal in terms of development.

Disclaimer: I could be totally wrong about Chaos, Nurgle and Chaos Pact seeing as I've never played them in LRB5.

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:21 pm

If you're in it for the mutations, go for Chaos Pact or Underworld.

Chaos Pact give you great long-term GPSM combos for everything from nutcrackers (block, MB, Claw, Piling On), man-markers (tentacles, disturbing presence) and runners (extra arms, two heads, foul appearance, VLL if you got Leap on a doubles roll).

Meanwhile, Underworld give you a great combo of 2+ dodging and ball handling Gobbos (two heads, extra arms)! They are a deft running team that can do really well if you can cope against tackle heavy opponents and the odd snake-eyes.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:57 pm

Chaos is a great mutation team, very late league. As it is, Block, Guard, Block, Mighty Blow, Block and Guard are the skills you'll be wanting first. And Block, obviously.

But they have the great option of making a 'thrower' and 'catcher' positional out of their Beastmen, who can also defend themselves to a reasonable degree. Extra Arms helps with pickups and catching, then give them Strong Arm to get a decent chance of a quick pass to an Extra Arms and Sure Hands Beastman who can catch and keep hold of that ball regardless of Strip Balling Wardancers. Or go pick the ball up next turn if he happens to miss the catch.

But generally, Chaos Pact get the best usage out of mutatons. Two Headed Horned Goblins, Leaping Long Legged Dark Elves, Tenticled Trolls (on doubles, I believe)...great stuff. And then the usual Claw and Mighty Blow on everyone else. Oh yes.

~Andromidius

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:13 pm

Ulis - you need some mutations as second skills on Nurgle and Chaos, I suggest. Examples are Extra Arms on a Beastman/Pestigor who has Sure Hands, or Claw on a player who has Mighty Blow.

Headstrong - of the 3 genuine mutant sides, it looks as though Chaos Pact may be the highest performing (that would not surprise me since they are considerably cheaper than Chaos or Nurgle). But you would have to enjoy having 3 unreliable Big Guys around, as well as having an average Armour Value of just 8 (quite low for a bashy team). The Marauders are a blank slate in development terms (41 skills to choose from on a normal non-doubles roll). So you would need a clear team development plan, I suggest.

Nurgle are quite the most difficult BB side that I have played for any length of time. They are slow, lacking in skills, and skill up very slowly (say at half the rate of other teams). The way the team plays is not intuitively obvious (to me anyway) and they take time to learn to play well. But they are definitely "sporting", and are the only side that start with a good variety of mutations on the roster already.

Chaos are, I guess, the most predictable and orthodox in playing style of these 3 teams. A big advantage that they have is that the Warriors make good ball handlers, and therefore skill up well.

Hope this helps.

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:32 pm

Depends how long the league is. I reckon Nurgle is the best team in the long run, especially against passing teams but are slow starters (as are Chaos).

Skaven are good at most TV levels, but are very squidgy-same AV as Norse, but little block so get battered.

Chaos Pact look better than they actually are-no starting skills and inherent unreliability with loner and animosity, but you could get some awesome builds in the long run.

Headstrong · Post by **Headstrong** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:06 pm

So for progressing each player anyone got any tips? heres what im thinking...

Mino: seeing as he doesnt loose his TZ if he fails his wild animal check, ill give him tentacles (also using his frenzy to get him to as many TZ as possible seems like he'll be great at stoping cages and players getting off the line) on a double then block, then the obvious, break tackle, stand firm.

Troll: Claws then Block on doubles, then mighty blow, break tackle, stand firm. Troll will play mostly on the line and just act as a road block.

Ogre: Claws and block on doubles, then piling on (as hes the easist to stand up) break tackle, etc. Ogre will also be on the line.

Dark elf: Cage breaker/ball freer. Leap, Strip Ball, Horns, Long legs. With ag4 he'll probly skill up quick but what order to give those skills in? i think order i put is what id do, but maybe swap strip ball and horns?

Goblin: Ball snatcher... Big hand, 2heads, extra arms (or an agi increase would make 2heads and extra arms pointless).. combined with stunty and dodge, just means he can run into the cage after the dark elf has freed it up and retrive it on 2's.

Skaven: probly keep this guy back to sack catchers, hes the fastest player on the team, so most likely go, Horns, Block, Tackle, Strip Ball.

now time for marauders:

Passers: id want to develop two of these for different plays. One going Surehands, Pass, Extra arms, Dump off, and use him as a running passer for short passes. Then the other one Pass, Extra Arms, Strong Arm, Accurate, for long bomb passes.

Defensive player: Use these players to block catchers and stop passes, also great against dodge teams (Elves, Halfings, Goblins etc) Block, Prehenstail Tail, Tackle, Desturbing presence.

Offensive player: Mainly for building cages, Block, Gaurd, Standfirm, Horns.

Nutcrackers: Block, Claw, Mightyblow, Frenzy, Piling on.

Interceptor: Pass Block, Long Legs, Extra arms, Catch

Any other types of players? Maybe make a catcher or two, with extra arms, catch, Nerves of steel, etc.

Having a varity of specialist players means i can change my tactics between drives and switch defensive and offensive oriented players to best suit my needs.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:48 am

This is a pretty good team for HMP.. there's a reasonable chance that you'll want to chuck the ball away on turn 8 in order to prevent a TD.

If you play the Troll as a road block (and I would) then Stand Firm comes before Break Tackle. In fact, a lot of skills come before Break Tackle. Grab, Multiple Block, Piling On.

Ogres have a lot of options. IMO they make excellent cage-breaking support: Guard, BTackle, Stand Firm, Dodge on doubles: put them next to the ball carrier in the cage, then have your elf block with the ogre's assist (cf. Big Bertha.. awesome inducement!). And all those skills are good on the LoS for normal duty too.

Given the roles you've plotted for them, Block > Horns on Skaven, and Wrestle > Horns on elf.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:36 am

On Chaos pact all the big guys are s-agmp - so no normal mutation access. Trolls start with Mighty Blow too.

Ogre & Troll I'd go Guard, Stand Firm. Doubles I'd take Block over Claw.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:40 am

He did say Tentacles on doubles. It's split across the parenthesized bit, so it's fairly cumbersome to read.

But he has a point: frenzy the mino into lots of TZs, then just leave him there with Tentacles. Definitely higher risk than boring-old-Block, but high potential rewards too.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:05 am

I'm pretty sure he thinks mutations are available on normal skill access and he's saying block on doubles. Tentacles is a good choice on a BG on doubles. I think the league composition as much as anything determines whether its better than block though.