Talk Fantasy Football

Read this in another thread, and it's not the first time I've seen something similar:

PBEM: just take Block first Standfirm / Mighty Blow next ignore the double.
tabletop: take Sidestep much better then Standfirm here

I know I'm being stupid, since I've never played PBEM, but... can someone explain why you should choose one thing on the tabletop and something else on PBEM? Doesn't PBEM use the same rules?

Or is it an old version of the LRB from the days when Stand Firm helped on dodging too?

Na the point is very simple about the Stand Firm / Sidestep issue for example

In play by eMail PBEM the Side Step is more or less automatic (or you have to choose a square manually BEFORE your opponent even made his turn) so cause of that it can happen that the Side Step will make your turn alot worse then just standing still or even getting normally pushed.
I once lost a game cause of an automatic Sidestep from a Snotling with my Ogres. Standfirm is there alot easier to calculate for yourself cause you can be sure you stay where you wanted. Side Step in PBEM means with bad luck you end in a terrible situation that would NEVER happen in tabletop cause there i can interact directly when the push is made.

What Der_Doodle said.

PBeM is long, but if you had to send the file back for every player to determine if they wanted or didn't want to use a skill they have on their player then it would be an extremely long game.

To shorten the game, you hide the ball normally before the opponent sets up for the kick off. Its not required, you could ask for the game back to set the ball up, but normally you don't unless you have kick and it is crucial for you to use it against your opponent. In turn the Opponent normally sets up in a very cover the whole field kinda set up.

Wrestle is another one. People a lot of times assumes you would use your wrestle, so you have to specify that you will not use the wrestle if it causes an early turnover.

Not using dodge when a frenzy player gets the Pushback and Stumble result. If you use dodge your standing on the side line, if you are not using it, he can't push you in the crowd.

Shadowing, can get you in trouble if you are playing against Ogres, the snots just lead your Shadowing player all the way into a waiting Ogre. Unless your opponent says differently, or to lead the opponent off your ball carrier by running a good dodger by the Shadowing player.


And as far as Side Step, the tool has an automatic feature on it for Side Step. So if the player has it, and block them, the tool tells you to use the side step, well its good about it, but not perfect. I have heard of several games basicly lost due to the tool removing the "road Block" out of the way with the use of side step.

There a lot of things lacking in the PBeM compared to the Tabletop.
Common sense would normally tell you not to use a skill, but maybe your opponent would not think of what you are considering common sense, like the dodge example. So its normally just considered unless prior warned, use the skill.

But if its the only way you can play, its better than nothing.

i'm with you. That all makes sense. Thanks

The problem is at tabletop i am there watching everything my opponent does directly and can take all the needed influence on those parts where skills allow me to do so during his turn. There is a couple of skills that work cause of that slightly different if your not playing face to face.

-Kick is slightly worse cause you usually place the ball hidden before the opponent sets up his offense so you cant abuse loopholes in his setup.
-Wrestle Standfirm are slightly worse cause you usually dont have the choice to voluntary use/not use them like no Stand Firm against Frenzy to get him in a bad 2nd block. Or the Turnover issue with a not used Wrestle
-Side Step either pick a square before you oppenent does any movements and you can go badly if he does something you dont expect at all before he blocks you or even worse a terrible automatic field that may end in a lost game.
-Shadowing could be potetial abused as zephard described it.
-even Dodge could end worse in PBEM in case you get blocked by a Frenzy Player 1 square away fromt he sideline. you could not use Dodge to go down instead of getting surfed the 2nd Block. Not really to control in PBEM

Dunno if there are more example atleast i cant think about them quickly.
But those are the result of not playing face to face (and not sending dozens of eMails per turn for each single of those possible situations where my opponent has to act during my own turn)

zephard wrote: Wrestle is another one. People a lot of times assumes you would use your wrestle, so you have to specify that you will not use the wrestle if it causes an early turnover.

In case my opponant did this I would mast likely roll back the game and take the turnover. Having your opponant avoid early turnovers for you is abuse, like the shadowing and potentially the side step stuf. Even in cases where the opponant didnt think about it.

Tripleskull wrote:

zephard wrote: Wrestle is another one. People a lot of times assumes you would use your wrestle, so you have to specify that you will not use the wrestle if it causes an early turnover.

In case my opponant did this I would mast likely roll back the game and take the turnover. Having your opponant avoid early turnovers for you is abuse, like the shadowing and potentially the side step stuf. Even in cases where the opponant didnt think about it.

As an official in the MBBL:
NEVER roll back in the MBBL.

If you want to reset the board to that position then "fine"..


As a player.
Though I'll argue this way.

If you are the type of coach who wants the early turn-over, then you need to mention this to your opponent.

Many coaches take wrestle to protect their players from harm, and thus would use it to avoid the injury roll. (They may have a card and or a back up plan. So automatically assuming they want the turn-over is not the answer.

Further If you have seen how an entire turn works out, you have possibly gained too much information to just say "no, no I would have taken the early turn-over AFTER the fact or even "but that is ok, once an intercept roll is made or a pass dropped.."

So, if you have failed to notify your opponent that you would possibly want to take an early turn-over, then the first one you might just have to "eat." And then give him the notice. After that, then it might be more polite to reset the board back.
In my book anyway.

Mad Jackal
This is just another proof my PBEM and Tabletop are basicly two different games
In Tabletop i have to think for myself during the oponents turn.
In PBEM i either have to plan ahead about every single posibility my oponent could do and give him orders in advance about it (and therefor maybe hints how to play) or trust my oponent to interrupt his turn and maybe mail me the gamefile back in the middle for an important issue.

Fact is: There is no official rule in PBEM about how to handle that kind of abuses (or slight comon sense mistakes) and since you can not think about any possible outcome of a turn or interrupt the turn for each single interaction PBEM and Tabletop are 2 different things talking about the effect of some skills.

Let it be a Both Down on a Wrestle first action or luring a shadowing player away from an important defensive position. Both stuff that would never happen face to face but with a tool I have to hope my oponent is fair and uses comon sense about some moves or may end in terrible outcomes of those skills.
#
EDIT: and i think when talking about Rollbacks in PBEM the person doesnt mean deleting Log Entries. They meant manualy moving all pieces back to the moment before stuff happened

Der_Doodle wrote:Fact is: There is no official rule in PBEM about how to handle that kind of abuses (or slight comon sense mistakes) and since you can not think about any possible outcome of a turn or interrupt the turn for each single interaction PBEM and Tabletop are 2 different things talking about the effect of some skills.

Which is why most will put that the skill up is for a PBeM team when it is so that skills can be considered in this same but different game.

I miss the excitement and tension in the room when at a Tabletop game.

But so enjoy that I at least get to play.

Hey I dont want to make PBEM (especialy the MBBL) bad
I Love the MBBL. It is great to feed the addiction even if it will never reach the thrill of onboard playing