DE team too many line elves?

El_Jairo · Post by **El_Jairo** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:17 pm

I made a mistake in starting up my team: I used 11 Line Elves in order to get 3 RR's.

Now is my question: when it it a good idea to start sacking Line Elves (hate to do it but I can't wait for ever for them to die)

Blitzer, Block
Blitzer, Block
Runner, Dump-Off, Nerves of Steel
Line Elf, Block
2x Line Elf, Guard
Line Elf, kick
7x Line Elf, no skills

20k in treasury
4/0/2 FF 3

btw, I play a small league with rather rookie teams and nOOb coaches (2x Orcs, 2x Skaven, Chaos, Human and Wood Elves)

Der_Doodle · Post by **Der_Doodle** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:19 pm

Voted for 13.
But 13 to 14 is just a matter of personal taste. If you have still Lineman with 0 SPP drop them better early then before they all get some SPP

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:04 pm

So 14 is some agreed number of players that people should be able to maintain? Why not go all the way to 16, due to inducements ?

Having 16players enables the use of DP for your advantage. As you're playing elves you'll be out against inducements anyway, right?

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:22 pm

Five elfs in the reserve box is very expensive buisness.

I think I would keep it down to 13 players until you and your opponants get some more skills.

adamcarl · Post by **adamcarl** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:43 pm

Tripleskull wrote:I think I would keep it down to 13 players until you and your opponants get some more skills.

second that

zephard · Post by **zephard** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:58 pm

Tripleskull wrote:Five elfs in the reserve box is very expensive buisness.

I think I would keep it down to 13 players until you and your opponants get some more skills.

+2

Johnny Blade · Post by **Johnny Blade** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:22 pm

13 or 14 players is up to you, really.
I'd go with 14. Chaos and Orcs can and will hurt you, so you'll lose one or two anyway.
And with such a Lineman-heavy team, you really don't want to be outnumbered by the finesse teams in the league, which might especially become an issue against Humans (Depending on Ogre/not Ogre and Guard on Blitzers.) and Skaven (Depending on, I don't know, luck? They can't take a hit, but they can dish out some.).

Anyway, I'd cycle through some of the remaining Linemen before I fire them. Just to see if you can get a lucky Double or Stat Increase, from which Dark Elves benefit greatly, even more than other Elves because of their more bashy gameplan and lack of reroll-skills.
On that note, congrats on your two Linemen with Guard there.

Alamar · Post by **Alamar** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:21 pm

If you're in a league with mostly "noob" coaches I don't see the point of keeping more than 12 players on your squad [at least until the bashy teams really develope]

AV8 + AG4 + playing noobs should mean that your players are not left in vulnerable positions often and even if that happens you aren't as brittle as Woodies ...

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:41 pm

Well I used about the same reasoning to end up at 13 players, n00bs tend to get that 10/10 on a 1d block with a rookie lineorc. I would also maby say you needed 14 players since you have almost no positions - an unfamiliar situation to me with DEs. It all realy depends alot on the other teams in the league. how much Mighty blow is arround?

besters · Post by **besters** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:50 am

I've always found Dark Elves get hurt easily, perhaps I push them too hard.

But i would keep it at 14 and have that foul available.

Fondu77 · Post by **Fondu77** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:54 am

14 is nice as 13. Lower may be risky and 16 is useless

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:35 pm

My DE team has 16 players and 261 TV

Hehehehe, just to play in our Legend Division (TV 260+)

I bougth 2 line elfs and a reroll to reach 261 TV so my teams TV was 242 with 14 players (played 41 games). I have one line elf with MA4 Wrestle, Dodge and he will be sacked after season is finished becuse the two other teams maybe won't be able to play at this TV next season.

Atleast 14 players and 4 rerolls.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:54 pm

Here's my stab at a formula for y'all to beat up and help perfect:

22- lineman AV, ±0.5 for expensive/cheap linos, ±0.5 for relative toughness of positionals, ±0.5 for bashy/soft format and relative TV, ±0.5 for personal preference, number of available positionals, and play style. Possibly limit to 14 or 15 depending on inducement rules, star selection and relative TV.

Never forget that, if Nuffle wills it, any agility team can get ripped by any opponent at any relative coaching skill differential, especially if the opponent has a few games to develop some hitting skills. Opponents' overall experience shouldn't be much of a factor in your decision. However, it might make sense to develop for what you perceive to be your key opposition.

Dark Elves: 22-8 = 14, +0.25 for positionals (some are fragile, some are not), -0.5 for lino price = 13.75. So 14. If you're bent on 13, you could get away with it, pleading to fairly light, quick opposition at comparable TV, but given that you've got a lot of linos with SPP (I assume), you're probably not going to want to round down. In a bashy league, you might want 15, but it doesn't look like the 15th guy will tend to justify his TV in context. So my gut tells me what my formula tells me, and that's my advice.

Want to be more specific? Ben Franklin (Jeremy Bentham, whatever) it out. Play at 14 for awhile, count the number of drives and turns when you're down men, and keep track of your benched TV per drive and turn when you're not. Try to figure out a relationship and an ideal balance (hint: a missing man at the start of the second half is worth a lot of TV on the bench).

Toby Wardman · Post by **Toby Wardman** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:15 pm

mattgslater wrote:22- lineman AV, ±0.5 for expensive/cheap linos, ±0.5 for relative toughness of positionals, ±0.5 for bashy/soft format and relative TV, ±0.5 for personal preference, number of available positionals, and play style. Possibly limit to 14 or 15 depending on inducement rules, star selection and relative TV.

So, Lizzies in a balanced league: 22-7 = 15, +0.5 for cheap skinks, -0.5 for tough Sauruses, means a 15-player roster. Sounds plausible, but you might want to factor in things like Stunty, niggling injuries, Thick Skull and other factors that make AV not a good reflection of the team's fragility. Perhaps ±0.5 for each of those, too?

mattgslater wrote:Ben Franklin (Jeremy Bentham, whatever) it out.

I get the Bentham reference, but (being an ignorant Brit) not the Franklin one - what's that all about?

Alamar · Post by **Alamar** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:49 pm

In my league the only AG team [Dark Elves] was coached by the guy that was easily the best coach in the league. They dominated with 11-12 guys for the vast majority of the season even though there were plenty of bashy teams. The level of competition in the league wasn't great as the only other decent coaches certainly chose teams that were at best Tier 1.5.

IIRC the DEs even caused more CAS than they got inflicted on them simply because he'd never allow his guys to get into bad positions. If he lost a positional [once every 4 games or so] he'd just buy a new one and skill them up lightning fast so it didn't matter.

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