Chaos : double on AG 4 Beastmen

Rhyoth · Post by **Rhyoth** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:28 am

Hi in there, I need some advice here, can you help me ?

Here is my new Chaos Team ( performing in a small, perpetual, and quite bahsy league) :

1) Beastmen (16 spp), + AG, *
2) Beastmen (22 spp), Block, Extra Arms
3) Beastmen (14 spp) Block
4) Beastmen (10 spp) *
5) Beastmen (2 spp)
6) Chaos Warrior (0 spp)
7) Chaos Warrior (8 spp), Block
8 ) Chaos Warrior (7 spp), Block
9) Chaos Warrior (11 spp), Mighty Blow
10) Mino (8 spp) Claw

Last match, I was lucky enough to roll a double on 2 beastmen, (n°1 & 4), that's where my headache begins ...

I'm pretty sure n°4 will ignore the double and take Guard, but I don't know what to do with n°1.

I only found out 2 valuable skills for him : Pass or Leap, and i don't fully appreciate either of them :
_Leap is interesting, but I 'll need many other skills (Wrestle + Strip Ball + VLL + Big Hand) to be very usefull
_Pass is much more valuable on short term, but I feel like I'd lose half of the potential of my precious AG 4 guy by making him "only" a thrower.

Can anyone give me a good advice before I just throw away this annoying double and take Wrestle as I originally planned ?

PS : am i the only one to think that Jump Up is the best (or at least one of the best) double for Chaos Warriors
(since Stand Firm is almost as good as Side Step, and Dodge can be cancelled by Tackle, damn those Dwarves ! ) ?

Mr_lemon · Post by **Mr_lemon** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:57 pm

Maybe I'm crazy but why don't take Nerves of Steel if you don't like Pass on the AG4 Beastie. That makes him a good thrower and catcher which makes him more allround. But bear in mind that I've never actually played Chaos. With that said I would probably take Pass if I were you as I believe that a good passing game would make your Chaos team a more complex team to play against and not just another bashy team...

And now that you've got another double on a beastie at the same time you've got the opportunity to build a thrower and one receiver. In a bashy league (as you describe it) I think that that would be a wise move...

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:18 pm

Leap/AG4 is good enough as-is, you know. It's a little risky, but totally manageable, and Leap/Horns is scary. If not, don't take Wrestle: make him a ball-handler. Block? Sure Hands? Extra Arms?

How about Pass?

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:19 pm

I won't offer advice on the Beastman issue, there are more experienced Chaos players out there to do that.

But,

Rhyoth wrote: (since Stand Firm is as good as Side Step

is something I do have a comment on.

Side Step is generally considered slightly superior to Stand Firm (except in a few situations, some of which are listed below).

The ability to move to slightly better positioning, ignoring tackle zones and Juggernaut (which cancels SF) being more common than Grab. In addition Frenzy can stack with Juggernaut but not Grab, leaving Side Step considerably better at avoiding being crowd surfed.

Some exceptions:

Caging duty: better to hold your position than let the attacker into your safe zone.

PBEM: as the Side Step tool is not always helpful.

In addition it may be better to take SF on a player, knowing it is worse than SS in order to take another double skill which is good for the player.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:30 pm

I'd go with Leap. AG4, Horns and Leap is pretty darn good to hit the ball carrier. I would go with Wrestle next.

So you now have an expert safety that can do his job against any team.

Extra Arms Beastman to pick-up the loose ball once it is on the ground.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:40 pm

I'd take Dodge. You say its a perpetual league, so you are going to be playing this guy for a long time. Dodge helps keeps him alive a bit longer and combos well with the +AG. All you'll really need to do is keep him away from tacklers - which as your precious AG4 you probably want to keep him out of trouble anyway.

If you don't want dodge then I'd ignore leap and look at passing skills. Pass would be favourite but accurate is interesting too.

#4 How about leader?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:52 pm

dodge is the obvious choice

I can't see past it either

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:10 pm

Yeah, Dodge is good. I'd echo Ian that the rookie with a double should consider Leader. Your team has to spend a lot of time fighting and is mostly AV8 without Block, so it would be nice to save the money (and half the TV) you'd spend on a TRR.

coma · Post by **coma** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:47 pm

Leap would be nice as mentioned. To blitz the ballcarrier in the middle of a cage with hornes and no hard dodge roll to make it happen is really good

Nerves of steele is another extremely nice skill to have on that AG 4 beastman.

If it were my choice i would go with leap just for the damn coolness of it.

Melipone · Post by **Melipone** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:26 pm

I'd second the leap for the AG4 guy...chaos lack an out and out cage buster and this really adds to your defensive options. It's also has adds offensive options too if he's going to be a ball carrier.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:01 pm

chaos are strong enough to just stand up toe to toe to stop cages

failing a leap into a cage it utter foul bait when they can just break a cage physically

for such a useful player on a chaos team there are better uses for him and I wouldn't want to waste him that way

play to your strengths etc

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:08 pm

Leap or Block on AG4
- Leap to make the goat a great blitzer getting into cages and jumping over others.
- Block becuse AG4, Block, ST4 Blitzing will make diffrences.

Pass or Accurate on the other double goat (then Strong Arm & Sure Hands)
- Pass to make your thrower and have the reroll for catching.
- Accurate and Strong Arm will make good passing games, only fumbling on a 1 when passing 4+ long bomb, or 3+ long pass

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:03 pm

If you're afraid of Leap, then either Dodge, Nerves or Pass. If you think you need offensive help, then take Pass to get a fairly safe way to put the ball in the cage. If you think you need D help, then either get Dodge as an insurance policy/poor-man's Leap, or Nerves with the intention of following with Big Hand and Block. The only problem would be keeping Nerves-boy alive. Maybe Block first? But that really diminishes the power of Nerves... yeah, even if you want to eventually give him Big Hand, you should start with Dodge. That way you can give him Big Hand as a #3, and not feel like you're investing 150kTV in a totally unprotected player. Make #4 Two Heads over Block, and he'll be able to pop into 2 or even 3 TZs with manageable odds to grab the ball for an end-of-turn chuck.

I totally think your team needs a Leader more than it needs an AG3 Passer. A dedicated Beastman Passer without SH is a dangerous, overpriced SPP-hog (not to mention a TRR hog without SH or a Catch player... XA receiver and AG4 guy help a little). At 16, he's ok, and he has a development curve that's quite acceptable beyond that (with XA and SA instead of P skills). A Leader, by contrast, makes everyone better, and isn't an SPP-sink. He'll truck along at half speed until he goes up again, and then he'll have Block and be pretty useful/durable (though he will always have a bullseye, so will your killer and your runner and your passer...).

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:23 pm

Leap on the AG4 Beastman. Seriously, potential star of your team there.

Pass on the other Beastman. Or Dodge. Chaos needs a bit of skill in a few of their players so they can play the game. And you already have a fair amount of Block on your other players, so you shouldn't suffer too badly. And when you get another skill, take Sure Hands.

~Andromidius

Rabid_Bogscum · Post by **Rabid_Bogscum** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:22 am

I'd take Big Hand

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Chaos : double on AG 4 Beastmen

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