Chaos vs. Frenzy

DoT · Post by **DoT** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:35 pm

Hey there...

I'm playing a chaos team in our league, which is quite balanced regarding agi and bash teams. I'm not too experienced with chaos and I'm going through the slooooow beginning phase...but that's okay, I like the team.

Nevertheless, I'm still busy getting block for most of my guys and far from having developed players. My plan is to get some nasty beasts with block/mb/claw, one or two frenziers, block and guard on the warriors and maybe a beast with a big hand when there's need for a decisive TD.

By now my biggest problem is defending my flanks, since the others already own some block/frenzy/... type of player who simply pushes my wing defenders into the crowd.

As far as I know there's three skills to help me out - fend and stand firm, both available to all my players, and sidestep on doubles.
Fend seems to be the weakest, which is quite obvious as it is just general...and it won't help too much against blitz moves, the ones usually used in this scenario.
Any advise on the other two? Should I wait for doubles and get a sidestepper or is stand firm just as good to protect my wings?

-DoT

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:47 pm

you may want to look into how you are positioning your players, you don't need those skills to protect the flanks, they just make it easier

I'd be looking at taking other skills before those as well, block guard etc

GreedySmurf · Post by **GreedySmurf** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:11 pm

If you mean your wing defenders are getting surfed in the first turn after the kick off? That's a positioning issue, and doesn't need skills to cure.

If you set up like this, one square in from the sideline, and your front winger being 2-3 squares back from the LoS it is virtually impossible (barring cards, kick off table results, etc) to get surfed from the kick off.
_________
|
|___ X
|_ X
|

If you mean in the turns after, for a dedicated winger go ahead and take stand firm. If you want some other utility for the player take fend. Fend will stop a frenzy blitz crowd push (unless you're already on the sideline), but obviously you'll need to throw a block back on your turn to get out of danger.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:33 pm

GreedySmurf wrote:_________
|
|___ X_ A
|_ X
|

You can still surf this guy unless you place someone at A too.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed May 20, 2009 12:20 am

Since Juggs cancels both Fend and Stand Firm I can't see a good reason to take Fend ahead of SF - unless you've taken Sidestep.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed May 20, 2009 2:06 am

Everybody's right so far, though "A" in Joe's diagram could be either of two squares (next to the WZ or one inside). Just don't allow any gaps of more than two squares between players, so your opponent can't break in and surf you. When dealing with high AG and Frenzy (Witch-Elf types) it's very important to put all wide players at least two behind the LOS. If dealing with two such players, you may even consider going three behind, especially if there are more than 3 turns left (or just one).

Guard is the poor-man's Stand Firm, and building for Block/Guard is more important in the short run with Chaos. With skill-intensive Orcs (who can't get Mutations), Stand Firm is much more of an option. Side Step is generally superior in the positions where a player is intended to soak up the blitz (and is great on defense against Frenzy), while Stand Firm is better on the line, and better than Fend in any case (a Chaos team should never have any Fend under any circumstances: it's just never the best option).

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Wed May 20, 2009 6:01 am

May I suggest you look at building at least one Chaos Warrior as a specialist ball carrier (Runner). The ST4 is very handy for any drive when you want to hold the ball for many turns.

May I also suggest you look at building a couple of Beastmen to sack the opponent's ball carrier? Wrestle, Tackle, 2 Heads etc. In any case you need some Wrestle on this team - it shouldn't all be Block, or you will be at a competitive disadvantage.

Another consideration for Chaos is whether or not to take the Minotaur. Without it, the team is much cheaper, as well as being more "reliable".

Hope this helps.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Wed May 20, 2009 6:47 am

Another counter to frenzy is having frenzy yourself. A retaliation crowdpush can do wonders. This probably won't help much vs very mobile teams like woodies or darkies, but if your wide zone players have pinning skills (tentacles, tail, diving tackle) he might think twice about trying to crowdsurf you.
Easiest way to get frenzy is to take a mino. I usually don't take one untill I have some guard in the team to support it. I think he's worth it in a chaos team if you develop him right. I usually go Claw (really kickstarts development), Tentacles as first 2 skills. This way you can push some players in his TZ so he doesn't have to blitz so often to get in some hits (I hate losing blitzes to WA).

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Wed May 20, 2009 1:56 pm

Smeborg wrote:May I suggest you look at building at least one Chaos Warrior as a specialist ball carrier (Runner). The ST4 is very handy for any drive when you want to hold the ball for many turns.

I'd strongly advice against this tbh. The easiest way to protect a ballcarrier is not letting the BC be hit. ST4 belongs on the line putting in the hurt.

MA5 is a huge hindrance on a ballcarrier as well, can take up to 5 turns to get from one end of the field to the other, so if you lose the ball your ballcarrying warrior is likely out for the count.

Rather get a ballcarrying beastman, he's not a specialist before & if you need the str (leaping opponent), get 2 guards around him for the 8 turn stall.

An easy solution to frenzy problem is indeed careful positioning and having frenzy of your own. Horns heavy team should have frenzy anyway, as those skills have clear synergies. A warrior with SF/Grab could also work, but is a bit expensive.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed May 20, 2009 2:42 pm

I agree with Carnis... unless you've got a Warrior who is close to skilling.

Lictor · Post by **Lictor** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:09 am

Is Chaos more a cage team or a running team?

If it cages then a St 4 BC would be better since cages don't really move more then 4-5 squares forward per turn. And there's nothing worse then fainlly breaking a cage to realise a St 4 players has his mits on the dang ball.

Otherwise of course, Running Team, you want a faster runner to hold the ball.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:25 am

With a cage team, you really want guys to protect the cage who will be hard to knock away. CWs are ST4, which fits the bill nicely. Who you run the ball with is less important; he shouldn't be taking hits, and if he makes a hit it should be part of a Blitz action, in which case ST doesn't matter on a Chaos team.

What does matter with a cage team is how close you have to get to break away and score. With the CW, that's one extra square.