Talk Fantasy Football

Im looking at adding a Pro elf team to our league, one of the other guys has one and its quite effective and diffficult to stop scoring!

The line up i was looking at is:

2 Blitzers 220k
3 Catchers 300k
2 Throwers 140k
4 Linemen 240k

2rr 100k


The plan is to start with 2 throwers, 1 to skill up with accurate, strong arm, sure hands etc as the main guy. The other thrower is to be a utility man with hail mary and kick.

The catchers will look to get dodge, leap, pro etc to be the target men, hoping that the opponent can only blitz 1 and not effectively mark all of them!

The blitzers are to be annoying, with stripball, dodge/leap, frenzy to punch through cages and create holes for the catchers?

The linos... wrestle and sidestep.... and hope for the best!!!!

not sure about giving a thrower hail mary and kick

Kick and Leader, in that order. There's nothing wrong with treating a Thrower as a lineman on a PE team (Kick is good on this guy, as you want him off the LOS and he develops more readily than the standard lino), but do take advantage of P access to give him Leader. Hail Mary is for slow teams like Stunties and Dwarfs: you can usually do much better with a quick (or possibly short) pass and a hand-off, and it's worth SPP unlike a Hail Mary. You don't even need to throw with a Thrower if you can keep it to 2+ or (3+ is safe enough with a TRR or Thrower).

Read my bit on the inverted-backfield D: with a pair of Side Step Linos and two PE Blitzers, you can protect up to 4 guys: 3 Catchers and a toolbox player (like this Thrower). The basic diagram: Until the Thrower/Kicker gets Leader and gets too valuable to expose to even a vague threat of blitzing, a single side stepper in the middle of the LOS is just as good, and faster to develop. Think of this as the pupal stage of the Inverted defense.

I have found the following starting roster to be more effective in practice:

2 Blitzers
2 Catchers
1 Thrower
6 Linemen
3 Re-rolls

If you start with only 4 Linemen, you will be forced very early to put positional players on the defensive line of scrimmage.

This team is hungry for Re-rolls as they need to counter-attack quickly and violently (before they get mashed). So a third Re-roll is important, and is a strong differentiator from other starting Elven rosters.

This strategy is best supported by giving the Thrower Leader on his first Skill Advance. Otherwise develop the Throwers in orthodox Elven style (e.g. Sure Hands, Accurate, KoR, Safe Throw etc.).

A highly successful development route for the Catchers (in my league experience) is Dodge, Wrestle, Tackle (with a view to giving them Leap, Pro as 4th and 5th regular skills, not before). I also suggest you ignore doubles rolls on the Catchers, to concentrate on making them into pure Blitzers.

The Blitzers are really defensive Blockers, so Dodge, Fend is good. Consider Sure Hands after that, to give you someone who can reliably hold and run with the ball (for example against a Nurgle team, when you cannot pass).

For the Linos, orthodox is best - Block, Dodge, Sidestep, Fend (Kick on one of them).

On doubles rolls for the Blitzers and Linos, you cannot do better than Guard. Once you have 4 Guarders, you will dominate the league.

Hope this helps.

Smeborg wrote:2 Blitzers
2 Catchers
1 Thrower
6 Linemen
3 Re-rolls

That's usually what I do, too. One benefit of starting more linos is you can build them faster. Through this route, develop your defensive Thrower first, as an offensive Thrower (read: desperation bomb specialist) is a luxury but TRRs are a necessity. Buy an Apothecary, then a Catcher, then a Catcher, then a Thrower, hiring linos only afterward and only to replace losses.

Yes, Pro-Elves seem to work fine without a well-developed offensive Thrower. I won a league without one (due to injuries).

Agree with the kiwi. More linos is the more cost-effective way to start this team. Plus, Kick on a Thrower isn't as good a deal as Kick on a lino. Once you get your team up to 13 players, that's at least five linos; you can afford to put Kick on one of them, especially if you choose to kick when you win the toss (which means you'll end up kicking first 90% of the time).

Note that this team can't go overboard on the Wrestle/Side Step/Fend combination. It's excellent, but I've played against a player who had Wrestle as the first skill on all six of his linos. It was very easy to mark his block players, so he'd be forced to give the ball to a Wrestle player, who is too easy to take down with a blitz from an unskilled lino. No more than three Wrestle linos should be needed, one Wrestle/Tackle/Strip Ball and two Wrestle/Side Step/Fend. If you're lucky and get Guard as the first skill on a lino, consider Block on him instead of Wrestle.

tenwit wrote:Agree with the kiwi. More linos is the more cost-effective way to start this team. Plus, Kick on a Thrower isn't as good a deal as Kick on a lino. Once you get your team up to 13 players, that's at least five linos; you can afford to put Kick on one of them, especially if you choose to kick when you win the toss (which means you'll end up kicking first 90% of the time).

It's a matter of who you're fielding. You've got your D-Thrower, your 4 Catchers, your two Blitzers and 4 linos. There's no room to have Leader and Kick on two separate players; you need to game to protect a couple players as is. One spot can be held by a lino, but he needs Block or Wrestle at some point. One spot can be held by a Blodge Catcher once you have one, or by a lino should you field only 3 Catchers on defense.

Note that this team can't go overboard on the Wrestle/Side Step/Fend combination. It's excellent, but I've played against a player who had Wrestle as the first skill on all six of his linos. It was very easy to mark his block players, so he'd be forced to give the ball to a Wrestle player, who is too easy to take down with a blitz from an unskilled lino. No more than three Wrestle linos should be needed, one Wrestle/Tackle/Strip Ball and two Wrestle/Side Step/Fend. If you're lucky and get Guard as the first skill on a lino, consider Block on him instead of Wrestle.

Good stuff. I say Side Step first on the first two and Wrestle first only on the third, as it's what keeps your net intact. Scoring every 2-4 turns is how you minimize casualties and develop your team, and keeping the action in the offense's half is how you score every 2-4 turns. Wrestle takes a backseat to Dodge in my book, unless there are dangerous Dwarfs about.

Tenwit - since I find that Wrestle is an outstanding skill on the Catchers, I believe that it is better to give Block to the linos. For me, Wrestle is a "sack the ball carrier" skill, whereas Block is normally better in defense (because it absorbs or wastes more of the opponent's actions).

So, Wrestle for blitzers (for Pro Elves, Catchers are the blitzers in all but name), Block for linos. I find this rule to be generally true for most teams, although there are exceptions (Orcs, for example). Block is also more useful when facing dodgy teams (stunties, 'Zons), since it helps to inflict damage on weaker opponent's who lack Block.

Hope this helps.

True, but for your LoS/Caging linos, Wrestle has a lot going for it. Since the opposition blocks you more than you block them, it is better to wrestle them down, since you're going to be able to move without a dodge, and are only going to move one space away anyway (they're linos; nothing more than a mobile fence). It's even better versus Orcs and Necros, since you're up against ST4 MA4 players; once they're on the ground, you can move two spaces, and force them to GFI just to make a pointless blitz.

But fair point on the blitzer thing: no point in building a lino with Wrackle/SS; build a Catcher (or two) like that.

Agree with the kiwi. More linos is the more cost-effective way to start this team.

Is it worth really get that many that early? To me the Pro Elf team is the catchers, the blitzers (6 players) and then a couple of cheap throwers (+10k over the linos for pass and P access is pretty sweet), with three + linos just to make the numbers up.

MA6 linos are a bit slow, I'd prefer them to just get in the way and not bloat TV with skills too much. Maybe a side-step + block player to go in the middle of the LOS would help on defence and a kicker, but I don't think i'd want that many skilled linos really.

Remember, you get a TRR for taking all those linos. And you still want them: 14 is the optimal roster level and the team has 8 positionals available. It's not like you're hiring players with the knowledge you'll have to fire them. And besides, linos die a lot, especially until they skill.

Cheers guys, thanks for all the input, its much food for thought!

Matt, for your defence plan, is it worth sticking the 2 blitzers on the line until a few linos get sidestep? Or will they just die too quickly?

Warboss Richard wrote:Matt, for your defence plan, is it worth sticking the 2 blitzers on the line until a few linos get sidestep? Or will they just die too quickly?

No, for 3 major reasons.

You need Side Step in the Wide Zones at least as badly as you need it on the LOS.

Blitzers are AV8 at 110k. Such a player should never go to the defensive line.

Blitzers are MA7 on an MA6 team, so having them standing after turn 1 is very valuable.

Better to stick blank linos on the line until you have your SS'ers.

I have found by trial and error that it almost never pays to put your most expensive players on the line of scrimmage (stunty teams excepted). This axiom is as true for Pro-Elves as for other teams.

You need enough linos that you will not be forced to put positional players on the line of scrimmage. While the positional players (especially the Catchers) are the playmakers of this team, the uncharismatic linos are the bedrock of the defense (believe it or not).

The linos are cheap at the price - this is the only Elven side with players at 60,000 a pop. It is by having a goodly quantity of these cheap players that you can mini-max the team (which, at the start, means having more Team Re-rolls than most of your opponents).

Hope this helps.