Talk Fantasy Football

So a new BB league is picking up in my area in a few weeks and I'm going to join. I've never played Blood Bowl and a buddy is lending me his extra team, so I get the Ratmen.

I'm going to start with the recommended team from the sticky, 1 Thrower, 2 Blitzer/Stormvermin, 3 Gutter Runners, 6 Linemen, 3 rerolls and 3 fan factor.

I'm pretty much clueless, so any advice for how to run Skaven for a new player/new league would be amazing, but in particular, how to set up and run the Skaven quick-score offense would be much appreciated.

-GWvsJohn

Welcome to the world of feast and famine. You have tons of speed and player death with a Skaven squad.

Firstly, drop the 3 FF in a league and save it for an apoth--or even drop a lineman if the league has a long season and buy an apoth to start. ONLY use the apoth on positionals.

Skaven offence has basically two flavours:
1) punch a hole in the line with your blitzers and leak Gutter Runners downfield (4 squares into the opponents side of the field).
2) gang up on oneside, open a lane down the sideline and develop a half-cage (GR on the sideline and a blitzer/linerat one square up and towards the middle of the field and ones down and towards the middle of the field.

After that, all you really do is react to the defence and get the ball to the least risky recipient for the two-turn score.

In either case try keeping the following ideas in mind to give you more flexibility in executing your plan:

• - cheat your thrower a bit closer to the LOS (you have enough speed to get back and get the ball and you need to have enough move to pick up a ball close to the LOS and drop back into a pocket)
  
  - send two line rats back to provide a picket for the thrower and use them to slow down the defence pressure and to surround the thrower when he passes/handsoff (in case of a fumble)
  
  - keep 1 GR close to the LOS. He's your midield playmaker in case the thrower doesn't have a good pass to a player in TD position. Get the ball to him and then maneuver him for the handoff/passing action to a GR in scoring position.
  
  - don't move the ball into range of enemy players on the first turn of your drive. Keep your ballhandler in the backfield unless you really know what you're doing. This gives you the option to change the direction of the play in case the defence really cracks down hard on a particular flank or hole.

BTW, Skaven are extremely strong on defence until the ball is caged on them. Basically, you need to play like you're on offence, but chasing the ball. Pressure the ball carrier and always have an outlet GR downfield in scoring range. This way you can capitalize once the ball is free and avoid your team being mauled.

Thanks for the tips!

A few further questions.

A lot of people talk about cages, but I've been unable to find a thread on "cage theory". Any chance you can crack an egg of knowledge on that for me?

Second, while I think I grasp the fundamentals of gameplay, I feel paralyzed when it comes to actually placing my eager squad on the field. Any quick recommended setups?

It's hard to post specific offensive setups, as there are so many factors that go into offensive placement. This is because offensive setup is a response to defensive setup. But I don't believe in doing anything that can properly be called a "cage" with Skaven. I like going for the 2TTD every time, 'cause the longer the match goes on, the more relevant AV and ST become and the less relevant MA becomes, and that's bad news for the rat-man.

A few basic points:
* It's best to get control of one side of the board for your two-turn score. Do this by shoving the opposing line away to the other side, setting up a screen of linos and GRs. Try to get some real penetration into the backfield with several guys. GRs are obvious receiving targets, but they get marked a lot, and improving linemen keeps your costs down and lets you build great gimmicks (Skaven are singularly good as a toolbox team).
* If it's convenient to knock the enemy LOS down (like if the enemy presents a ST3 line), you should stack the LOS and be ready to block diagonally to push the opposing team off the action and work out extra blocks. Players on the line who don't have to block will get maximum penetration in the backfield.
* Use a Thrower and a GR as returners. DO NOT make the mistake of moving the ball forward on the first turn of a drive, unless it's the penultimate act of a 1TTD: you're playing keep-away until you're ready to score, using the length of the field and one guy's TZ to protect the ball instead of a cage. And don't be particular about which GR you use this way, either. Or rather, do be particular if 1SPP matters, but don't build for it.

Build and development

* I've had people scold me for taking FF over cash, and I think they're right. Buy an Apothecary, then a GR or a Lino (depending on if you get 50k-70k before 80k), then a Rat Ogre, then a GR or Lino (whichever you didn't get before). Then maybe another Lino, depending on how much of a beating you take.
* Score with everybody except the RO. Manage your SPP development by sending downfield targets who need the points, meaning you have to pick your intended scorers (pick 4 and settle for any) before the drive begins. Go for need over ability if you have a TRR or if the game is put away, and for ability over need when the chips are down and you don't have a RR.
* Unless you have 3 Guard, then Linerats get Guard on doubles. If you do have 3, then Linerats can get gimmicky stuff on doubles.

Very good post by Matt here, just to add a few random points:
* on your starting lineup I would trade in the 3 ff and a linerat for the fourth runner
* Wrestle is a very good skill for linemen, I prefer to take Block on the runners and throwers though as they'll be moving the ball. One runner usually goes Wrestle/Strip Ball though.
* When taking skills build your team for defence and survival (2 weak points of the team). While giving eg catch to a runner might be tempting it is unnecesary as skaven teams score very easily once you get the hang of them.
* as Matt says, try to get some spp's to your linerats early on, once other teams start gaining skills it becomes a lot harder to skill them up and easier for your opponent to kill unskilled ones.

some interesting threads to read:
http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/vie ... 85&start=0

http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/vie ... ge+tactics

Some basic cage theory:

Standard Cage
The above formation is a standard cage. It is where four players (X) occupy the corner squares of some fifth player, usually carrying the ball (B). Unless any of players X is adjacent to an standing opposing player, it is not possible to blitz the ball carrier without using special skills and / or making a really hard dodge roll (into three tackle zones). If any of players X are standing next to an opposing player, it is possible to push that player X away and blitz the ball carrier from the diagonal square previously occupied by X.

Players X usually have skills like Guard or Stand Firm to make it even harder to make a decent blitz on a ball carrier, and player B usually have skills like Sure Hands / Block to avoid loosing the ball on a -2 dice block.

Half cage
The above formation is a half cage, with the sideline (shown with |) covering two of the diagonal squares. The half cage requires considerably less players to set up compared to a normal cage, but it is also more risky. Do not use this tactic against teams with Frenzy, since they can easily push one of Player X into the crowd! Side Step is a good skills for players employing this formation, simply to avoid being pushed into the angry mob.

Breaking the cage

Ultimately, the goal is of course to hit the ball carrier. As mentioned above, this can be done by either pushing one of Players X out of position using a Block action (and subsequently using the blitz on the ball carrier), or use special skills to bypass Players X. To set up for the push-away block, try getting at least four players into contact with two of the Players X, and simply hope that they will be unable to get rid of all of them. Note that this is a risky tactic for Skaven with their weak armour, and can easily leave you short handed! Graphically, this could look like:
Also make sure that as many players as possible are between the cage and your end-zone, to prevent the opposing team to form new cages and avoid your blocking screen.

Relying on special skills is probably a safer bet for Skaven, and the most obvious tactics are:
* Rat Ogre with Breat Tackle - Dodge into a full cage on 4+, and then get a two dice block on the ball carrier (make sure to mark players X to avoid assists, and also always plan ahead for the follow up block from Frenzy!)
* Gutter Runner with Strip Ball / Wrestle - Dodge into a full cage on 5+ with re-roll, and then get a -2 dice block on the ball carrier. If neither dice shows a Skull, the ball will be loose (but beware of Sure Hands to counter this tactic).
* Gutter Runner with Leap (Wrestle / Strip Ball). Same as above, but making a leap is easier than doing the dodge. A 3+ (or 2+ with Very Long Legs or AG5) takes you anyware you want to go. Make sure to have an apotecary near by, as roughly half of the opposing team will be able to smack the leaper in return!

An outsider is to use a Blitzer with Claw / Mighty Blow (/Piling On), and keep hitting Players X to get them of the field. Even though this might not stop the opposing team from scoring, you should be able to get rid of which ever player on the enemy team (apart from B) that is causing you the most trouble, and hopefully he will stay out for your upcoming drive.

Another way is to simply blitz away one of Players X, and try to put the Rat Ogre (or possibly a blitzer) in the tackle zone of the ball carrier. This won't get you the ball loose instantly, but it is a safer move and will force your opponent to either Block the Rat Ogre (and thus not moving forward), Blitzing the Rat Ogre (and thus not hitting any of your weaker players) or to risk a dodge from the Perhensile Tail.

Would drop 2 linemen + 3FF and replace with gutter runner + apoth.

Gutters are better than linemen in every way.

Playing, you learn by playing. The most important bit for a new coach to learn is how to maximize your odds of not turning over when blocking (i.e. always block with 2-3die, always have block players block first etc, etc), and not taking high risk actions early in the turn (unless they can/will yield a score).