Need advice for Orc Team

greywolf · Post by **greywolf** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:56 am

my brother inlaw is going to retire his Ogre team and head over to an Orc team and wants some ideas on what to field.

he was thinking :

2x Black Orcs
4x Blitzers
2x Throwers
4x Linemen
3x re-rolls

another option was:

1x troll
2x Black orcs
3x blitzers
1x thrower
2x goblins
3x Linemen
3x Re-rolls
1x assistant coach or cheer leader or fan factor

any ideas would be great he doesn't come online to the blood bowl community so he has asked me to look into for him

Cheers
GW

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:28 am

There's no one right way with Orcs. No matter what, I think you should take 4 Blitzers, but that's just an optimum thing: you can totally win with 2.

Me, I'll take quality over quantity any day. I like:

4 Blitzers
4 Blockers
1 Thrower
1 Troll
1 Line or Goblin
2 Re-Rolls
10k or 20k banked

or

4 Blitzers
4 Blockers
1 Thrower
2 Line or 1 Line, 1 Goblin
3 Re-Rolls
10k or 20k banked

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:44 am

mattgslater wrote:4 Blitzers
4 Blockers
1 Thrower
2 Line or 1 Line, 1 Goblin
3 Re-Rolls
10k or 20k banked

That.

You need 4 black orcs to start. They are what makes the team work.

greywolf · Post by **greywolf** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:46 am

thx

have passed it onto him and he is deciding on whether to get a troll or not.

he is deffinately taking the 4 blitzers and 4 black orcs. still thinking about either the linemen or gobbo options.

thx for the advice really appreciate it.

Cheers
GW

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:46 am

Joemanji wrote:
mattgslater wrote:4 Blitzers
4 Blockers
1 Thrower
2 Line or 1 Line, 1 Goblin
3 Re-Rolls
10k or 20k banked
That.

You need 4 black orcs to start. They are what makes the team work.

This is the roster that I usually start with as well. You need those BoBs early-on, and having them early will help them skill-up more quickly.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:15 am

I likes me troll...! He'll break you heart, sometimes, but an early start, with break tackle, guard and (doubles) block is a beautiful thing to behold!

greywolf · Post by **greywolf** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:04 am

Digger Goreman wrote:I likes me troll...! He'll break you heart, sometimes, but an early start, with break tackle, guard and (doubles) block is a beautiful thing to behold!

he's still not sure about the troll in the starting line up and he's going to get back to me with his decision.

I am thinking I might make an Orc team at the same time so I can help him do conversions and painting. this will be his first team that he will glue up, convert up, and paint. I have done that job with his other teams so far and its time he got his hands dirty.

thx for the advice.

Cheers
GW

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:27 pm

Does he want to run a passing game with two Throwers and Goblins? If so, Trolls are great: they develop faster than BOBs, so you can be more finessey with your Blitzers, and they can TTM in a pinch. Building into a second Thrower (don't start with him) lets you get a Leader-bearing halfback/safety and a dedicated QB with Accurate and KOR. But if he only wants to run one Thrower, Leader carries a big opportunity cost, and he's better off starting with 3 TRRs and hiring a Troll out of winnings. Either way, the objective is to end up with 3 TRR, 1 Troll and 12 players (13 if any Goblins are taken) before filling in the final gaps.

greywolf · Post by **greywolf** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:56 am

mattgslater wrote:Does he want to run a passing game with two Throwers and Goblins? If so, Trolls are great: they develop faster than BOBs, so you can be more finessey with your Blitzers, and they can TTM in a pinch. Building into a second Thrower (don't start with him) lets you get a Leader-bearing halfback/safety and a dedicated QB with Accurate and KOR. But if he only wants to run one Thrower, Leader carries a big opportunity cost, and he's better off starting with 3 TRRs and hiring a Troll out of winnings. Either way, the objective is to end up with 3 TRR, 1 Troll and 12 players (13 if any Goblins are taken) before filling in the final gaps.

I've decided to make an orc team with him so we can do the conversions and paint job together to help him out.

I am thinking he might go the troll path, and I might not. if so Then I'll take the following:

4x Black Orcs
4x Blitzers
2x Throwers
2x linemen
2x re-rolls
1mil

he might go for:

4x black orcs
4x blitzers
1x troll
1x linemen
2x goblins
2x re-rolls
1mil

I know that the gobbos are squishy but if they do croak he'll use journeymen till he can get more.

Cheers
GW

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:25 pm

With 2 RRs and no Thrower, the second roster looks like it will have ball-control problems. Starting 12 men isn't very important, as players can be hired straight out of winnings. I've done it lots of ways over the years, but in my experience, it's better either to max out on the expensive stuff or to sell enough of it down to take the third Re-Roll. This advice holds for most Tier 1 teams.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:14 pm

With four BOBs you'll need 3 rerolls too.

I always start with 3 rerolls. I still haven't found a better starting lineup than 4 BOB, 4 Blitzer, 2 Line, 1 thrower. Orcs have tons of cash normally because it rare anyone dies - so buy apoth, troll, 2nd thrower, goblin. You might want a 3rd line orc or 2nd goblin too if you do a lot of fouling. I'd also by a 4th reroll at some point. After that I'm not sure there is much spending money on, other than replacement players.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:57 pm

Ian's basically right: BOBs and Trolls block a lot and don't start with Block, and you want to save 2 TRRs for blocking with them (as 5 players, normally you'd dedicate 1 to them, so this is essentially one extra TRR), and if you have only 2 TRRs that means you're going short for a bit. It's not really like having no TRRs for 6 guys, as you'll use them when you use them, but it does mean that against some teams you'll need to get an early numerical advantage or cross your fingers.

That's not to say you can't do it. If you have only 2 TRRs, you really need a Thrower. You'll breathe easier once you skill him up for Leader: until you do you need to be careful about doing the safest things first and conserving TRRs. I'd only take 2 TRRs as opposed to 3 if I got something really major for it, like a Troll. Conveniently, a TRR plus a Lino costs as much as a Troll.

There is no one right way with Orcs, though: Orcs are not really broken in the sense that there's no one Orc build that's obviously the best team structure in BB, but there are so many competitive ways to design Orcs (15 positionals!) that they're really more like a race and a half. I think I see a fatal flaw in the 2nd roster (not enough RRs not to have a Thrower), but the first one is okay. In a league format, where you're building for development, I'd only take one Lino and I'd take an Apothecary to start. The Lineman is a better deal here and now, but the Apothecary is a 50k head start on the Troll or 3rd TRR. If you're playing to build skills, then either leave it as is or take a Goblin over the 2nd Lino so you get some experience using him.

I'd recommend if you're both relative novices that the less experienced coach take no Goblins and the more experienced coach take one or two. Goblins are tricky: they can do stuff that nobody else on the team can do, and they're as fast as your fastest guys, so they are good on offense, but they're fragile and can't do a lot of things that your other guys do. So they're a good way to develop your skills once you've got the basics down, but they can be frustrating for new coaches. Moreover, if he decides he likes Goblins, he can buy them out of Winnings, as they're very cheap.

greywolf · Post by **greywolf** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:37 pm

here is a re-work of the teams:

4x Black Orcs
4x Blitzers
1x thrower
2x Linemen
3x re-rolls
total:990k

I could drop the two line men and take a second thrower but would then need to take a goblin in stead of a linemen to flesh it back up to 11 players.

4x black orcs
4x blitzers
1x troll
1x Thrower
1x linemen
2x re-rolls
total:990k

that was my fault no thrower I didn't see I had missed him as he was meant to have one in his team. So to get it all in I had to drop the gobbos he can get one or two with his first lot of winnings. as for the third re-roll it was a trade off with the troll or a linemen+re-roll and the troll won.

Cheers
GW

greywolf · Post by **greywolf** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:18 am

what types of skills are needed for the orc team?

Blitzers
1st Skill: Guard, Mighty Blow,
2nd Skill: Sure Hands, Stand Firm
3rd Skill: Dodge, catch, [doubles]
+1MA, +1ST, +1AG

Black Orc
1st Skill: Block
2nd Skill: Juggernaut, Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Frenzy
3rd Skill: Dodge [doubles]
+1MA, +1ST, +1AV?

Throwers
1st Skill: Strong Arm, dodge, [doubles]
2nd Skill: NoS, Accurate,
3rd Skill: HMP
+1MA, +1AG,

Linemen:
1st Skill: Block,Sure Hands,
2nd Skill: Kick, Tackle, Wrestle
3rd Skill: Dodge, Guard, [doubles]
+1MA, +1ST, +1AG,

Goblin:
1st Skill: Jump up, Leap, Side Step
2nd Skill: Diving Catch, Sneaky Git, Sure Feet
3rd Skill: Block, Dirty Player, Sure Hands, [doubles]
+1MA, +1AG

am I missing something or have it in the wrong place?

Cheers
GW

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:48 pm

You know, there is a sticky for all this... there are also hundreds of Orcs threads here. Here's some good advice you won't find in a one-day search:

Everyone who can't be dedicated strictly to offense and backup duty is built strictly or almost strictly for defense. On all Blood Bowl teams I only consider offense as an afterthought in my team development: On Orcs, I build a quarterback and maybe a cheap Goblin receiver with Diving Catch, and run 13-14 players. This is because a scoring team has to defend the next drive. So if you can get your offense to 100% and your defense to 50%, sure you'll probably do well, but you won't be able to pad your leads too terribly effectively, while if you can get your offense to 50% and your defense to 100% you'll win a lot of blowouts and maybe suffer the occasional 1-2 loss. It's ok to grab one or two skills with primarily offensive application (on Orcs, that means a Black Orc with Grab as a #2 skill... you won't be sorry), or to select your "defensive" skills with offense in mind, but no matter what, every bit of TV that you can't use on D must be in your mind justifiable as "bench."