How to stop a 1TTD Gutter Runner?

[Halskov1]

My Orcs recentely played a Skaven team that featured the classic 1-turner Gutter Runner: +MA, sprint, sure feet.

The game tied at 3-3. All of his TD's where 1-turners.

My defensive set-up pretty much blocked the WZ's with a block BO and an SS blitzer. He could not break down the LOS with guarding BO's and troll. Still after a preliminary block all he had to do was make two 3+dodges & one +2 dodge, with use of the dodge skill of course. On top of the GFI's and a +2 catch, it definitely left room for failure. But it was still quite manageable. And he did it. Three times.

My question is this. Apart from getting the kick skill and killing the GR if he is ever fielded on defense, what kind of set-up would you use if you knew the opponent would attempt a 1TTD?

Skill advice is welcome too as long as it is sensible in light of normal skill progression.

[Funksultan]

Good question... wish there were a good answer.

The bottom line is, he only has his skills, and 1 TRR on the turn in question, so you need to make him roll as many dice as possible.

- Have kick so it gets DEEP into the corner

- If the kick is deep, you're hoping he'll have to pick up, throw, catch, hand off, then do his block and 3-dodge dance of TD lovin. That's a lotta rolls, and your best chance for success. Having some tackle helps too, but maybe not as much, as he can position around it.

For me, I can't stress the kick enough. The difference in # of rolls is quite different from a good corner kick vs out of bounds.

Other than that, you are orcs, and the base skaven lineman is ag 3 with no dodge. Let him score, then proceed to DECIMATE the rest of his team. Don't be gentle. Exterminate them all, and force his GRs onto the line if you can. *grin*

Sorry man, that's all I have. If there were a magic skill that could prevent it, that'd be great, but one-turners are what make the skaven team competitive. If they could be shut down easily, I doubt we'd see anyone at all playing em.

[Joemanji]

As he says .. Kick skill is important.

Kill enough of his linos so he has to field the OTS GR on defence, and then foul the hell out of him.

[napking]

You should follow Funk's strategy for the game overall, but if we take a OTT defense in a vacuum, what I do is try to force the runner through as many Tackle Zone's as possible, forcing the dodge rolls. You'll also want your set-up deep enough so that their one blitz won't make a gaping hole for the rat to run through.
Depending on the number of players, I set-up a line straight across the field with players one space away from each other. They can pick the path to get through those TZs but at least one of them will have a -2 modifier. On an AG4 runner, that's at least a 4+ roll, a 3+ and a 2+ dodge rolls if going between two players.

Talking skills: diving tackle and tackle skill could help but, again, he has the choice of which players to dodge between.

[Carnis]

The simplest is 3 on the LOS, with rest of the team 2 squares from Endzone, tackle on 4 players.

Something like

------xxx------

x-T-x-T-x-T-x-T

[napking]

How's This?

Arrows and Dice shown are the min roll required for an AG4 player.

[Halskov1]

The end zone defence is actually a pretty good idea. I can't imagine why I didn't think of it myself

It would only really work in those cases where the 1TTD is the only option for the opponent, but in that scenario it is pretty hard to do better.

Thanks.

[mattgslater]

Stand Firm on each BOB (ideally Guard on the line and Block in the linebackers), have them man the ends of the LOS and the interior spots. Stand Firm and Tackle on the same players. Hit squad on the RO, as he's the only Skaven ticket to break without Leap. Use doubles to get Side Step on Blitzers in the Wide Zones.

Most important, kill kill kill. If you're the underdog, throw everything you can into ugly. Ugroth+Bribe, Merc Goblins for fouling, whatever: that's the most reliable way to beat one-turners. If you're explicitly worried about Rats, take a couple Mighty Blow Blitzers, and line them up on schmoes as much as possible, to take advantage of the AV7.

[Machiavellismx]

think about it long term. try and make him have to roll as many dice as possible, the more he rolls, better chance to fail. kick, as said, will be very useful here.

anyway, soon as you get the chance, nail him! blitz him, take him out, block him at every chance. foul him foul him foulhim. you get the idea. it may open you up by putting so much resource into him, using a blitz etc... but he's only got AV7. it will break the more you him him, the more chance he's a gonner. and the sooner he's gone, the less TD's yr opponents going to get. it may cost you one game if yr throwing several players at him, but just try to hold off the rest while you take him down. once he's gone, throw everything you have into the game.

[Wylder]

Last time I played a 1turner team it was LRB5 woodies.

He elected to receive and scored in turn 1. Great start for him, right?

8 turns later I finally walked in my TD. The only opposing player left on the field was his tree that had taken root several turns earlier. Neither 1-turn catcher (he had two of them) woke up to start the second half. Needless to say when I received to start the second half, I wasn't under any huge amount of pressure.

Sure I got like 3 sendoffs during half one for fouling, but thats why you have a deep bench. It was well worth it though. If I had just scored in a few turns he would have continued to one-turn-td against me every kick and I would possibly have lost by giving him a lot of KO-recovery rolls.

[bjorn9486]

I would echo everyone else here; let him score quick and then drive him into the ground and tie it up 1-1 at the end of the first half. The second half should see a lot less people on the field for him.

[Gimli]

Beating a one turner is easier with Dwarves - line up 8 LBs 2 squares outside the endzone, ideally with some Stand Firm and DT mixed in, although he should be able to avoid the DT pretty easy. Also, when you have the ball only score on Turn 8 of the half - this way he has only 2 chances in the game to score, and if anything goes wrong on either drive ...

Actually beat a Skaven 1 turner to whom I had to kick off on Turn 1 using the line of 8 LBs. He opted to take a couple of turns coming up to the line and then trying to punch a hole. He didn't appreciate how much Tackle I had, and sure enough a dodge was failed after the TRR had been used that turn. Now getting the ball to his end with LBs - that was another story - but he didn't score!

[Jural]

If you can force him to:

Make a 2 die block with block (97%)
Pick Up the ball (89% with Sure Hands and AG 3)
Hand it off to the OTS runner (96% of the time with catch)
Make 2 3+ dodges and a 2+ dodge (74% with Dodge and TRR)
Make 2 GFI rolls (92.5% with Sure Feet)

That's 57% success... not good, not great. You are playing it pretty well, tip your cap to him! Most OTS come easier than that, they are achieved by knocking out the opposition in the wide.a couple of side step black orcs or blitzers who are adjacent to the wide can

With orcs, though, you can put DT gobbos one square behind your stand firm black orc in the wide, and I think it becomes almost impossible to dodge through. you'll need to put some meaty black orcs on the very end of your line though, and maybe even put 5 men on the line. That can force the team to try and go up the middle- nearly impossible without a rat ogre or leap.

[Funksultan]

Sounds like we're all on the same page here.

From a higher level, your game ended 3-4, rats. By and large, that's a pretty high scoring game. You are orcs. Your goal is to bash. The only time you should even think about getting into a scoring competition is when (for some reason) you find yourself outbashed i.e. stacked dwarves, you're down players, etc.

All things considered, you got into a TD war with one of the top scoring teams, and still pulled it out. On the downside, that's a war you never shoulda got into.

"Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia..."
- Vizzini

Play YOUR game, not theirs.

[mattgslater]

Not sure about that. In a lot of contexts, a 3-4 loss is better than a 1-0 win. More SPP, for instance.