Skills for Orcs

Heff · Post by **Heff** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:03 pm

Just got my second blitzer to skill up and went for pro cos I thought it was a less certain dodge catch pass and lots of other things. thinking of making this guy my main scorer from the cage with catch if possible but break tackle as the next skill to get him out of dodge. Is this a good plan?

rest of the team are vanilla except that I have a BOB with block and a blitzer with Guard.

Associated question. I have one goblin but how many do people normally play because I suspect they can be oddly useful.

Funksultan · Post by **Funksultan** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:14 pm

I'm not a fan of pro.

The scenario is, you have a lot of things you want to do this turn. Some important (blitzing the ball carrier, picking up the ball, scoring, dodging to complete your cage) and some not so important (a block on a guy who isn't near the action, etc).

You know enough to order things that are pretty safe (A 3-die block with block skill) before not-so safe things (A 3+ dodge without skill). In this order, something goes bad. This is the time for a TRR. If you have a "pro" character, you will be risking the rest of your turn on a 4+ roll.

If he was doing something "important", that's bad. That's VERY bad Jo-Boo. If he was doing something not so important, it's pretty good. All the important stuff is done, so why not give him another chance? If it doesn't work out, you'll still end the turn in safety.

So the question in your mind should be... will this guy be doing important things, or not important things? Ball carrier sounds "important", thus, I'd pass on pro and give him other, more dependable skills.

You'd have to ask other players about gobbos. I don't care for them on Orc teams as they are so fragile, other coaches tend to target them for easy injury SPPs, and to shift the number of players in their favor. Good for a single turn TD with Troll-throw, but otherwise, I think you're better off sticking to the Orc game. Muscle, and lots of it.

D

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:34 pm

I'm also down on Pro (Funksultan did such a good job I'll leave it at that), but I'm even more down on the idea of a "primary scorer" on a BB team. It's very SPP-inefficient and will stunt your team's development: much better to scheme for an intended scorer based on who can improve. You can develop a safety-valve receiver in BB, but it's not going to be an MA6 guy with GS access. Build for defense, if you ask me. Stand Firm, Frenzy, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Guard... no particular order there.

Same with the Goblin. Diving Tackle, Side Step... the exception is for a character to help distribute comps by catching the ball and then handing off. That guy should get Diving Catch if you're using the new one, or Catch if not. You need 11 non-Goblins, either immediately or very quickly. It's best to have 2 Goblins if you take any, as they get hurt a lot, especially as you learn to use them. They're very good foulers, but don't bother with Sneaky Git: you want to be making easy fouls, where SG is less useful.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:41 pm

The Pro argument I can't improve on, but I will say that Pro is an excellent choice on "punishment pieces" and in some leagues Pro is a better choice than Wrestle, Tackle, Piling On, or Strip Ball for an Orc Blitzer as it makes you more universally effective on the second skill. Frenzy is a better choice than Pro, but because of positioning dangers, some coaches should prefer Pro.

Just what types of leagues? IMO, leagues with a good mix of block, dodge, not both, and mid to low level AV. So if your league is a short league with Lizardman, Norse, High Elf, Pro Elf, Chaos Dwarf, Dwarf, Orc and Human heavy (teams with lots of block OR Dodge, not both) the Mighty Blow + Pro Blitzer gets a lot of mileage.

I now prefer the Frenzy MB player in the same role, but I can respect the other choice.

Of course you can also develop your team so that you can always have a specialist to deal with dodge (tackle) or block (wrestle). But in short leagues, I kinda like having my blitzers develop to lay down the pain and put in some mobile guard.

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:15 am

I can see pro as a good candidate skill for norse linemen, if they don't need fend, kick, tackle or wrestle. Also possibly for a vampire (as 3rd skill), to tone down bloodlust and to improve hypnotic gaze. Would never pick it for scoring purposes though.

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:22 am

Heff wrote:Just got my second blitzer to skill up and went for pro cos I thought it was a less certain dodge catch pass and lots of other things. thinking of making this guy my main scorer from the cage with catch if possible but break tackle as the next skill to get him out of dodge. Is this a good plan?

rest of the team are vanilla except that I have a BOB with block and a blitzer with Guard.

Associated question. I have one goblin but how many do people normally play because I suspect they can be oddly useful.

You need ST4 to have use for Break Tackle.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:49 pm

Carnis wrote:I can see pro as a good candidate skill for norse linemen, if they don't need fend, kick, tackle or wrestle. Also possibly for a vampire (as 3rd skill), to tone down bloodlust and to improve hypnotic gaze. Would never pick it for scoring purposes though.

Pro is awful for any ballhandling, 1 die blocks, or blocks without block or wrestle. It's really a hidden version of Frenzy, which works half the time and doesn't require you to get out of position (and also can't sideline push.)

Heff · Post by **Heff** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:05 am

Thanks guys. May have made a mistake here then. Ah well we all have to learn. Will use him for pain giving and forget break tackle then. Bought him just before the game he got one cas and MVP so instant skill up. Mighty blow was considered and might have been more "Fluffy" but decided on Pro as it seemed he came in and made his mark.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:30 pm

Pro is good for players that do a lot of blocking with block.
Just use it on any non-downing block (if you dare risk the doubleskull)

It is also good for players that do things late in the turn. Say a reciever type, without access to A-skills. Basically, you want pro on the stuff you're doing after you've blown your reroll, so if you need a pick-up, pass, catch, gfi, gfi to score, then pro is pretty useful (on the reciever, not on the passer).

Cheers
Martin

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:07 pm

Pro on an orc blitzer was actually the first skill I ever picked in BB. The reroll thing just seemed like such a good idea. Then I used it on something vital and used a reroll right after on trying to succeed in the pro roll... Leader on an orc thrower was my second skill!

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:12 pm

plasmoid wrote:Pro is good for players that do a lot of blocking with block.
Just use it on any non-downing block (if you dare risk the doubleskull)

It is also good for players that do things late in the turn. Say a reciever type, without access to A-skills. Basically, you want pro on the stuff you're doing after you've blown your reroll, so if you need a pick-up, pass, catch, gfi, gfi to score, then pro is pretty useful (on the reciever, not on the passer).

Cheers
Martin

This makes it a great #3 skill. Total agreement there. If you're looking for a damage skill, Frenzy and Mighty Blow are better, and Stand Firm is almost as good, as it functions as an extra block every time you get pushed but not knocked down (in addition to its myriad other functions). If you're looking to develop a scorer, then I recommend holding off and rethinking the strategy.

How about a cage-front, so you can score with whoever you want and use this guy to protect the TD target? In that case, take Stand Firm, and follow with either Tackle, Guard or Mighty Blow at 16, depending on what you're facing. Of course, as the forward edge of the cage, there's nothing to stop you from throwing to him. Most important, it's a great skill for protecting the wide zones on defense, and also for maintaining a TZ in the face of a 2d hit (say, if you put a zone on the ball). Moreover, an opponent can't throw a 1d blitz to break your cage and hope for the best, because there are only two successful results no matter how the hit is angled. You can bring up the rear with BOBs, and then good ball protection (a Thrower thing) is all you need to own your offensive drives.

Want a 2TTD machine? Frenzy opens up all sorts of stupid pushing tricks. Again, lots of defensive applications, again mostly in the wide zone (just where you want your Blitzers... tough enough to soak up a hit, fast enough to pressure the ball, or stay in the action if the play goes the other way). Frenzy is very good against lots of Dodge, when you don't want to spend an early skill on Tackle.

If you don't like that, but aren't sure exactly what you do like, taking Mighty Blow as the #1 skill is solid, as it pushes the big decisions down the road and accelerates the player's development. Mighty Blow is best against low-AV teams, but if you can keep the player-to-player matchups favorable it's great against anyone.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:35 pm

I like goblins on Orc teams.... If you can't protect him, then you're (imo) not playing Orcs right.... Little git can boot-n-scoot, or hand off, within six squares (well, hand off if he's 7 away and the Orc's 6) of the end zone....

Many possibilities for two gobbos: One as the flying 1TTd/2TTd (sprint and sure feet come naturally); and one as the fouling artist (Sneaky git, DP on doubles)....

Some folks have intentionally tried to develop the one-turner, sacking him if not getting an AG upgrade within two skill levels....

Anyone that exposes a goblin, block/blitzed or not, should be ready for an ugly sight...!

Heff · Post by **Heff** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:28 am

Thanks for this guys.

I had a thought about gobblins and 1ttds. Anyone succeeded with getting your troll to lob him down field before his move and then pass to him with the thrower. If he doesn't land on his head and if he can get the ball then you are on for a score. Lots of chances to fail I know but if it works?

Is it just for desperate times (end of second half and you are equal or down)

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:49 am

The throw with the troll is the pass action, so you have to hand off to the goblin.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:53 am

mattgslater wrote:Same with the Goblin. Diving Tackle, Side Step...

I'd not bother with the defensive build for goblins on Orc teams. Build them all as receivers IMO - catch, sure feet, sprint. That way they actually add something to the team.

As foulers they are okay, but for 10k more line orcs can get Dirty Player naturally and survive longer.

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Skills for Orcs

Skills for Orcs

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